United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA): September 28, 2013 “The Skeptics™” Burzynski discussion: By Bob Blaskiewicz – 2:19:51

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[1] – September 28, 2013 “The Skeptics™” Burzynski discussion: By Bob Blaskiewicz – 2:19:51
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BB – Bob Blaskiewicz
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DJT – Didymus Judas Thomas
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0:47:00
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BB“Ummm, o-kay”

“Uh, I want to turn this over to the people who are watching”

“Um, I want to give them a a chance to address you as well”

“Uhmmm, hi everyone”
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0:48:00
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0:53:00
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BB“A every time that I and and and and, and David (James @StortSkeptic the Skeptic Canary) points this out, that um, you you know you’re not going to speculate about the the FDA but then at every turn you’re invoking the FDA as being obstructionist
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0:54:02
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BB“I, I just find that to be contradictory and and self-defeating
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DJT – Bob, exactly where did I invoke “the FDA as being obstructionist” ?
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1:02:00
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BB“Um, it’s it’s it’s not the FDA’s, but you understand it’s not the FDA’s job to tell someone that their drug doesn’t work
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1:03:00
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BB“it’s it’s it’s up to Burzynski

“It’s up to Burzynski to show that his drug does work”

“And it’s always been his burden of proof

“He’s the one that’s been claiming this miracle cancer cure, forever”
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DJT – Bob, Burzynski showed and proved what he needed to prove to the FDA in order to do phase 2 clinical trials, 9/3/2004 – FDA granted “orphan drug designation” (“ODD”) for Antineoplastons (A10 & AS2-1 Antineoplaston) for treatment of patients with brain stem glioma, .10/30/2008 – FDA granted “orphan drug designation” (“ODD”) for Antineoplastons (A10 and AS2-1 Antineoplaston) for treatment of gliomas, and FDA approved phase 3 [1-2]

Oh, and Bob, exactly when did Burzynski 1st claim “this miracle cancer cure” ?
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1:04:02
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BB“Um, that we’d love to see, however we can’t see, however we can’t see it because of proti protri proprietary uh protections that the FDA is giving to Burzynski, right ?”

They’re not sharing his trial designs because they are his trial designs, right ?”

“That the makeup of his drug that he’s distributing are his, uh design, and his intellectual property

“So the FDA is protecting him, uh from outside scrutiny
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DJT – Bob, you make it sound like it’s part of some grand “conspiracy” between Burzynski and the FDA to keep information from “The Skeptics™” [3]
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21CFR601

Subpart F–Confidentiality of Information

Sec. 601.50

Confidentiality of data and information in an investigational new drug notice for a biological product

(a) The existence of an IND notice for a biological product will not be disclosed by the Food and Drug Administration unless it has previously been publicly disclosed or acknowledged
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BB“While you may imagine that that, that that the FDA is is somehow antagonistic toward him

“They’ve given him every opportunity, over 60 opportunities to prove himself worth uh their confidence and hasn’t
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DJT – Bob, that certainly explains the 9/3/2004 and .10/30/2008 ODD’s and phase 3 clinical trial approvals by the FDA – NOT [1-2]
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1:05:00
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1:42:00
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BB“I don’t, the thing is though that, that that’s a inver, shifting the burden of proof off of Burzynski”

“Burzynski has to prove them wrong, has to prove him right”

“The FDA is not there to say this doesn’t work”
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DJT – Bob, who initiated and put into place the clinical trial hold ?

Burzynski ?

FDA ?

Both ?
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1:43:30
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BB“So, I mean, honestly, um, saying “Well, when the F, FDA tells you that it doesn’t work, the FDA’s never gonna say that because that’s not their job
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1:44:00
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BB“That’s not an option, because they’re never gonna do it

“They relinquish, a lot of authority, over to Burzynski, and his Institutional Review Board, which, I would mention, has failed 3 reviews in a row”
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Bob, where are the “final reports” for those “3 reviews” ?
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BB“Right ?”

“It is Burzynski’s job to be convincing”

“It is not our uh, uh, it it it he hasn’t produced in decades

“In decades”

“In hundreds and hundreds of patients, who’ve payed to be on this”

“Hell, we’d we’d we’d like a prelim, well when you’re talking about something that is so difficult as brainstem glioma, that type of thing gets, really does in the publishing stream get fast-tracked there”
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DJT – Bob, Burzynski has provided numerous phase 2 clinical trial preliminary reports, which our #fave oncologist has chosen to ignore [4]
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BB“they test it”

“Yeah, and they they they want uh, that was evidence of fast-tracking is what, that rejection was uh e was very quickly
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DJT – Bob, have you checked The Lancet Oncology [5] to see what was so much more important than Burzynski’s “phase 2 clinical trial Progression-Free Survival (PFS) and Overall Survival (OS) re patients 8 – 16 years after diagnosis, results” [6] and the Japanese antineoplaston study ? [7]
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BB“So, how long will it be before Burzynski doesn’t publish, that you decide that uh perhaps he’s he‘s, doesn’t have the goods ?

“Um, so, uh, uh again, the FDA is not the arbiter of this

“It’s ultimately Burzynski”

“You’ve been speculating about what the FDA’s motivation are like crazy”

“Why not speculate about Burzynski a little bit”
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DJT – Well, how have I been speculating ?
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1:46:00
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BB“Well actually I’m not even asking you to speculate about Burzynski, I’m only asking you to tell me, how long would it take, uh how, for him to go unpublished like this, um, for this long, before you would doubt it ?”
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DJT – Note how, above, without proving it, Bob claimed “at every turn you’re invoking the FDA as being obstructionist”, and now, directly above, again, without proving it, Bob claims “You’ve been speculating about what the FDA’s motivation are like crazy”
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DJT – what the journals keep saying, in response
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BB“What ?”
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DJT – You know, are they going to give The Lancet response, like they did in 2 hours and such, saying, “Well, we think your message would be best heard elsewhere,” or they gonna gonna give The Lancet response of, “Well, we don’t have room in our publication this time, well, because we’re full up, so, try and pick another place” ?
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BB“But these but but but that doesn’t have any bearing on

“That doesn’t”

“Oh I’m not asking you how long, how long, would it take you for you to start doubting whether or not he has the goods ?

“How long would it take ?”

“It’s a it’s a it’s a question that should be answered by a number uh uh months ?

“Years ?”

“How long ?”

“It’s been 15 years already”
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DJT – Well, you like to jump up and down with the “15 year” quote, but then again I always get back to, Hey, it’s when, when the report, when the clinical trial is done
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1:47:06
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DJT – Not that he’s been practicing medicine medicine for 36 years, or whatever, it’s when the clin, clinical trial was done
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BB – “I could push it back to 36 years”

“He hasn’t shown that it works for 36 years”

“I can do that”

“I was being nice”
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DJT – Note how Bob acts like he’s been hit with “The Stupid Stick”

If he wants to go back “36 years”, I can refer back to 1991 (11/15/1991) – Michael J. Hawkins, M.D., Chief, Investigational Drug Branch, Department of Health &Human Services (HHS), Public Health Service, National Institutes of Health (NIH), National Cancer Institute (NCI), sent a 1 page Memorandum Re:
Antineoplaston
to Decision Network, which advised, in part:

It was the opinion of the site visit team that antitumor activity was documented in this best case series and that the conduct of Phase II trials was indicated to determine the response rate” [8]
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DJT – The FDA A believes there is evidence of efficacy
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BB – “Perhaps based on bad phase 2”
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DJT – Well, we don’t know that

We don’t have the Freedom of Information Act information
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DJT – Remember, Bob is the one who told me during the 9/28/2013 Google+ Burzynski Discussion Hangout:

“You’re you’re you’re assuming”

“You’re you’re you’re assuming that”

“You’re assuming that”

“Um, I’m not assuming that”

“There is a correct answer here”

“You don’t know”

“You don’t know”

“You need to look into it”

“Alright ?”

“Before you dismiss it you have to look into it”

“Everytime somebody throws uh uh something to me,
I have to look into it”

“That’s just, it’s my responsibility as a reader”

“T t and what I would honestly expect and hope, is that you would be honest about this, to yourself, and and and that’s the thing we don’t, we often don’t realize that we’re not being honest with ourself

“I try to fight against it, constantly”

Bob just ASSUMED that the FDA approved phase 3 clinical trials for Burzynski “Perhaps based on bad phase 2”, but tells me NOT to ASSUME ?
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BB“He withdrew”

“He withdrew the the phase 3 clinical trial”

“I that before recruiting,
although I’ve seen lots of people say they were on a phase 3 clinical trial

“I wonder how that happened”
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DJT – Well, we know what happened in the movie because Eric particularly covered that when they tried to get what, what, was it 200 or 300 something institutions to take on a phase 3, and they refused
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1:48:01
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BB“Uh did do do you think that if they thought that he was a real doctor that they all would have refused like that ?
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DJT – Well, Eric gave the reasons that they said they would not take a particular uh phase 3

And so using that excuse that you you just gave there, I’m not even gonna buy that one, because that’s not one of the reasons
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Note how Bob pulls out the old “if they thought that he was a real doctor” line ?

Is Bob now claiming that Burzynski is NOT even a “real doctor” ?
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BB – “He’s changed things”
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DJT – Eric said they gave
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BB“That The Lancet is a top-tier journal like New England Journal of Medicine

“It’s basically be, besieged by uh 100′s of people submitting their, their, their reports”

“Um, it’s just, you know, let’s say he, someone has such a thin publishing record as Burzynski does, do you think that it’s likely that he will ever get in a top-tier journal ?

“What about the the Public Library of Science?”

“It’s not the only journal there”

“What about BMC Cancer ?”

“There’s lots of places that he can go”
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DJT – We’ll I’m
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BB“Um, and he doesn’t seem to to have evailed himself of that, as far as I can tell

“And I would know because he’d get rejected, or he’d be crowing, you know”
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1:49:02
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BB – “Either way, he’s gonna tell us what happens”

He told us what happened with The Lancet, you know”

“I don’t have any evidence that suggests to me that he’s even trying”
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Note how Bob refers to Burzynski’s numerous publications as “such a thin publishing record”

Bob, do I need to count all of these for you ? [9]
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DJT – Well, I’m, I’m sure that they’re going to keep you appraised just like they have in the past, just like Eric has done in the past

So

I mean, we’ll see what happens with the Japanese study [7]
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BB – “So let’s go back to this”

“How long will it take ?”

“How long will it take before you, the Japanese study’s interesting too because we should be able to find that in the Japanese science databases, and we can find, we can’t find it at all

“We can’t find it anywhere”

“And, and those are in English, so it’s not a language problem

“We can’t find that anywhere”

“We’ve asked”

“We asked Rick Schiff, for, for that study”

“And, and it hasn’t come to us

“He is now I believe on the Board of Directors, over there”
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1:50:00
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BB – “He should have access to this”

“We can’t get it”
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Bob, did you ask:

1. Annals of Oncology 2010;21:viii221 ?

2. European Society for Medical Oncology (ESMO), Colorectal cancer, Abstract: 3558, May 17, 2010 ?

3. Colorectal Cancer Association of Canada, COLORECTAL CANCER RESEARCH, Month Ending June 19, 2009
11. Antineoplaston Therapy Doubles 5-Year Survival Rate Following Curative Resection of Hepatic Mets (May 27/09) pg. 5 of 20 ?

4. Kurume University School of Medicine (Japan) Department of Surgery ?

5. Hideaki Tsuda ? [7]
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BB – “How how long will it take before you recognize that, nothing is forthcoming ?”

“How long would that take ?”
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DJT – Well that’s like me asking “How long is it going to take for y’all’s, y’all‘s Skeptics to respond to my questions ?”

Because y’all haven’t been forthcoming
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BB“Well, I mean, were talking about a blog here

“We’re talking about life”

“No, we’re talking about a blogger’s feelings in that case

“In in this case we’re talking about, 1,000′s of patients, over the course of of of generations, you know”

“This is important stuff”

“This is not eh eh equating what’s happening to to patients with what’s happening to you is is completely off-kilter as far as I can tell

“It’s nothing”

“It’s nothing like you not getting to say something on my web-site”

“You know”

“This is they they have thrown in with Burzynski, and they’ve trusted him, and he’s produced nothing

“Nothing of substance”
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1:51:00
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BB – “Nothing that that has made all of that um, uh, n nothing th th th that uh his peers would take seriously”

“The other thing that that that strikes me now is that, you know, you you you you keep saying that, well Eric is going to to share things with you”

“Does it ever concern you eh uh eh occur to you that Eric might not be reliable ?”
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Bob, do you want to have a contest to determine which of you is more “reliable” ?
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DJT – Well, he gave you The Lancet information and he posted the e-mail in the movie, and Josephine Jones posted a copy of it [6]
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BB“He then, and then he”

“And then he he, you know, the the the the dialogue that sprung up around that was, well see, he’s never going to get to get published”

“Well you’re just setting yourself up for wish fulfillment”

“You want him to be, persecuted, so you are ecstatic when he doesn’t get to publish, which is unfortunate for all the cancer patients, who really thought that one day, all the studies were going to be published”
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1:52:00
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DJT – Well, y’all are free to, you know, claim that all you want, because I don’t always agree with Eric, and uh, he’s free to express his opinion
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BB – “Where has Eric been wrong ?”
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DJT – Well I don’t necessarily believe, what Eric would say about, you know, The Lancet that refused to publish the 2nd one, for the reasons he stated, and which y’all have commented on, including Gorski

You know, I don’t necessarily agree with that

I am more agreeable to y’all, saying that, you know, they’re busy, they’ve got other things to do, but I’m kind of still laughing at their 1st response which he showed in the movie about how they felt about, you know his results would be better in some other publication

I thought that was kind of a ridiculous response to give someone
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BB“It’s it’s it’s it’s a form letter

“You know”

“They’re just saying, “No thanks””

““Thanks, but no thanks” is what they were saying, in the most generic way possible”

“Like I said, they’re besieged by researchers trying to publish
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1:53:05
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DJT – Well you would think that if its a form letter they would use the same form that they used the 2nd time

You know, they didn’t use the same wording that they used the 1st time

I would have think that, you know, their 2nd comment
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BB“So, so, possibly”

“So possibly what you are saying is that they in fact have read it, and after having read it they’ve rejected it”

“Is that what you’re saying ?”

“Because that’s what peer-review is”
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DJT – Nah, I’m not saying that they did that all

I’m just sayin’, you know, that they gave, 2 different responses, and I would think that the 2nd one they gave
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BB – “Do you know it was the same editor, that it came from the same desk ?”

“You can’t make that assumption that that the form letter will be the same form letter every time”

“I mean you just can’t

“I mean in in some ways we have a lot of non-information that you’re filling in, with what you expect, as as opposed to what’s actually really there, and I I I just think you’re putting too much uh stock in one uh, uh, in in in in this uh the publication kerfuffle
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1:54:16
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BB“Um”
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DJT – Well I find it funny, something along the lines of, you know, “We believe your message would be received better elsewhere, you know

I don’t see that as a normal response, a scientific publication would send to someone trying to publish something

I mean, to me that sounds, like, if you’re doing that, and you’re The Lancet Oncology, maybe you need to set some different procedures in place, ‘cuz you would think that with such a great scientific peer-reviewed magazine, that they would have structured things in as far as how they do their operations
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BB“Well, not necessarily

“I’ve been in any # of professional groups where the organization is just not optimal, and publications certainly th there are all sorts of pressures from all sorts of different places”
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1:55:08
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BB“I I have no problems whatsoever with seeing that this might not be completely uh um uh streamlining uniform processes as possible

“The fact that it’s not uniform, doesn’t have anything to do with Burzynski not publishing, not producing good data”

“Not just going to a, you know, god, even if, even if, let’s put it this way, even if he went to a pay to play type publication where you have to pay in order to get your manuscript accepted; and he has the money to do this, it wouldn’t take that much, and he were to put out a good protocol, and he were to show us his data, and he would make his, his his stuff accessible to us, then we could validate it, then we could look at it and say, “Yeah, this is good,” or “No, this is the problem, you have to go back and you have to fix this””

“Right ?”

“So we really, every time we talk about the letter that he got, yeah that doesn’t have much to do with anything, really”
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1:56:02
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BB – “We wanna see the frickin’ data”

“And if he had a cure for some cancers that otherwise don’t have reliable treatments, he has an obligation to get that out there anyway he can

“And if if peer-review doesn’t, you know, play a, if peer-review can’t do it, you know, isn’t fast enough for him, then he should take it to the web, and he should send copies out to every pediatric, uh, you know, oncologist that there is

“That’s the way to do it”
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DJT – Well, I’m sure, I’m sure Gorski would have a comment about that, as he’s commented previously about how he thinks uh Burzynskishould publish
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1:57:10
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BB“It’s the, it’s the data itself

“If if Burzynski is is, is confident in his data, he will put it out there

“Right ?”

“One way or the other”
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DJT – Like I said before

Like I said before on my blog, you know, even if Burzynski publishes his phase 2 information, Gorski can just jump up and down and say, “Well, that just shows evidence of efficacy, you know, it’s not phase 3,
so it doesn’t really prove it”

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1:58:04
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DJT – So then he can go on, you know, for however many years he wants to
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2:01:00
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BB“Um, almost no treatment goes out without trials

“Massive amounts of data are required”
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Bob, do you think that’s the 2.5 million pages of clinical trial data that Fabio said Burzynski sent to the FDA ? [10]
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2:02:00
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BB“Uh, in in in that sense, you know, uh all the the the, you know, kind of back-peddling and and and trying to defend him is is going to, not going to help his case at all
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Bob, exactly where did I exhibit any “kind of back-peddling” ?
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2:03:03
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BB
“You are, honestly as far as I can tell you are doing the um, you know, you’re you’re ah throwing up uh, uh, uh, you’re giving me another uh invisible dragon in the garage, um”
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DJT – Well y’all, y’all can call things what y’all want

I mean, y’all can give these, fallacy arguments and all that garbage that y’all like, because that’s what y’all like to talk about instead of dealing with the issues

I mean, Gorski doesn’t want to deal with the issues
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2:04:11
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BB“Okay, so”

“What you’re telling me is that you trust the FDA to to be able to tell you when he’s not doing, good science, but also that you don’t trust the FDA”

“Do you see an inherent conflict there ?”
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DJT – How did I say I, I didn’t trust them ?
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BB“Well, when I, whenever I would ask about, like, why would these trials aren’t happening uh and, you know, you say well the the FDA’s arranged it

“The FDA’s in control”

“They sign off on these things”

“But they’re they’re they’re they’re at the same that they’re, they’re trustworthy they’re also not trustworthy depending on what you need for the particular argument at the time
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2:05:12
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BB – “You’re suggesting that they’re untrustworthy”
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DJT – No, I’m just sayin’ that I’ve raised questions and none of The Skeptics wanna to uh talk about ‘em [11]
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BB“Do you know that the FDA pulled out of the prosecution ?”

“Did you know that the FDA pulled out of the prosecution um of his criminal case, because they were backing a researcher ?”
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Bob, would that “researcher” be Dvorit D. Samid, who was in Burzynski: Cancer is Serious Business (Part I) ?
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DJT – Well, we know a lot stuff they did, but that still doesn’t impress me that they pulled out of the prosecution

I mean
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BB“Yeah, the the the it wasn’t the FDA who was pressing charges, it was a Federal prosecutor
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DJT – Right
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BB“Right”

“And and, they declined to provide information that the prosecution needed

“That’s important”

“That that that’s really important

“That he has been given the benefit of the doubt, and he has come up wanting, for decades now”
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DJT – Well I find it interesting a lot of this uh, a lot of these letters that were provided between, you know, the government and Burzynski, when the uh phase 2 study was going on, at the behest of the NCI

You know, anybody who reads that stuff knows, that when you just ignore the person that’s been doing, do treating their patients for 20 something years, or close to 20 years, and you change the protocol without his approval, and you don’t use the drugs in the manner that he knows works
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2:10:15
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BB“One of the interesting things about Doubting Thomas that I think you should definitely consider for yourself, is that at some point, when faced with the real opportunity to prove or disprove his assertions, he doubted himself”

“And that’s important”

“And that’s where you’re falling short in the analogy”
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DJT – Well, I think The Skeptics, Skeptics are falling short because, you know, they don’t own up to
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BB – “I’ve laid out exactly what it would take for me to turn on a fucking dime”

“I have, I have made it abundantly clear what I need

“Gorski has made it abundantly clear”

“Everybody else, Guy, and David, and Josephine Jones, uh, the Morgans, all of them have made it abundantly clear, what it would take to change our minds, and you’ve never done that”
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2:11:02
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BB“And even in this, this was an opportunity to do that

“To come up with a basis for understanding, where it’s like, you know what, If we can show this, you know, if we can show a this guy, that, that, there, that his standards are not being met, then, you know, we could possibly have some sort of ongoing dialogue after this”
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DJT – So I can say that since the Mayo Clinic (Correction: M.D. Anderson) finished their study in 2006, and it took them until 2013, to actually publish it, then I can say, well, Burzynski finished his in 2009, which was 3 years later, which would give Burzynski until 2016
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BB“Why wasn’t that study”
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DJT – for me to make up my mind (laughing)
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BB“Why wasn’t that, that that that, still . . again, it it doesn’t seem really to to approach the the the, main question here

“You know, um . . what are the standards that you have that it isn’t, what are your standards to show that it isn’t efficacious ?
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2:12:05
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DJT – Well I can say, well I’m going to have to wait, the same amount of time I had to wait for Mayo (Correction: M.D. Anderson) to publish their study; which was from 2006 to 2013
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BB“Why was the Mayo”

“Why was the Mayo (Correction: M.D. Anderson) study delayed ?”
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Note how Bob ASSUMES that the publishing of the final results of the M.D. Anderson study were delayed
——————————————————————
DJT – How do you know it was delayed ?
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BB“Well you said you had so many years before you finish it and go in”
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DJT – I mean, has anybody
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BB“Why, why did it take so long ?
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DJT – done a review of when a clinical trial is studied, and completed, and how long it took the people to publish it ?

You know

If they could point to me a study that’s done that, and say, well here’s the high end, here’s the low end of the spectrum, here’s the middle
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BB“I have something for you, okay ?”

“Send me that”

“Could you send me that study the way that it was published because um, just just send me the final study, um, to my e-mail address”
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DJT – Sure
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BB“Um, because, I can ask that question of those researchers, why was this study in this time, and what happened in-between”
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2:13:03
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BB – “Why did it take so long for it, for it to come out”
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DJT – Sure, but that’s not gonna, you know like, answer an overall question of, you know, somebody did a comparative study of all clinical trials, and, when they were finished, and at, and when the study was actually published afterwards

You know, that’s only gonna be one, particular clinical study
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BB“Right”

“Um, but it it would, perhaps, answer the question; because you’re using it as an example on the basis of which to dismiss criticism, whether or not, uh, it is the standard, and therefor you’re allowed to accept that Burzynski hasn’t published until 2016, or, um, it’s an anomaly, which is also a possibility, that most stuff comes out more quickly
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DJT – Well, we know that the Declaration of Helsinki doesn’t even give a standard saying, You must publish within x amount of years,” you know ?

So, I’ve yet to find a Skeptic who posted something that said, “Here are the standards, published here”
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2:14:07
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BB“I I, yeah, the other thing that David James points out is you know, why 2016 when he’s had 36 years already ?
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DJT – Again, we get back to, when the clinical trial is finished, not when Burzynski started
======================================
BB“Treating people”
======================================
DJT – I mean, you would expect to find a results to be published after, the final results are in
======================================
BB – “You would expect the Burzynski Patient Group to be a lot bigger after 36 years, and in fact is
======================================
DJT – You would expect some people would want to have confidentiality, and maybe not want to be included
======================================
BB – “So, if you’re unsure about this stuff, if you’re unsure about the the time to publication, why are you defending it so hard, other than saying, “I don’t know, I really need to”
======================================
DJT – Why am I unsure ?
======================================
BB“Uh about the
======================================
DJT – (laughing) I just gave you an example
======================================
BB“The reasons, the reasons for which that he’s, no, why are you defending him so hard, when you’re unsure ?
——————————————————————
2:15:02
======================================
DJT – Oh, who said I was unsure ?

I just gave you an example
——————————————————————
Note how Bob ASSUMES that I’m “unsure” when I had the same answer since 0:32:07 [12]

Bob, who approves “Accelerated Approval” ?

1. FDA ?

2. A peer-reviewed scientific journal ?

3. The Skeptics™ ?

Bob, It’s your unlucky [13]
======================================
REFERENCES:
======================================
[1] – September 28, 2013 “The Skeptics™” Burzynski discussion: By Bob Blaskiewicz – 2:19:51
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/10/04/september-28-2013-the-skeptics-burzynski-discussion-by-bob-blaskiewicz-21951/
======================================
[2] – FDA grants Orphan Drug Designation (ODD) for A10 and AS2-1:
——————————————————————
http://www.burzynskiresearch.com/assets/PressRelease_12022008_BZYR(2).pdf
——————————————————————
josephinejones (@_JosephineJones), D Nile ist http://josephinejones.wordpress.com/2013/01/23/happy-birthday-dr-burzynski-and-goodbye-antineoplastons/comment-page-1/#comment-8921
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/09/23/josephinejones-_josephinejones-d-nile-ist-httpjosephinejones-wordpress-com20130123happy-birthday-dr-burzynski-and-goodbye-antineoplastonscomment-page-1comment-8921/
======================================
[3] – The Skeptics @Majikthyse reveals madjik research skilz:
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/09/26/the-skeptics-majikthyse-reveals-madjik-research-skilz/
======================================
[4] – Critiquing David H. Gorski, MD, PhD, FACS http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/editorial-staff/david-h-gorski-md-phd-managing-editor/
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/08/21/critiquing-david-h-gorski-md-phd-facs-www-sciencebasedmedicine-orgeditorial-staffdavid-h-gorski-md-phd-managing-editor/
======================================
[5] – The Lancet Oncology
——————————————————————
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/onlinefirst
——————————————————————
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/issue/current
======================================
[6] – FINALLY, one of “The Skeptics™” has the “Balls” to do what even Dr. David H. “Orac” Gorski would NOT do:
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/09/12/finally-one-of-the-skeptics-has-the-balls-to-do-what-even-dr-david-h-orac-gorski-would-not-do/
======================================
[7] – Burzynski – The Antineoplaston Randomized Japan Phase II Clinical Trial Study:
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/03/28/burzynski-the-antineoplaston-randomized-japan-phase-ii-clinical-trial-study/
======================================
[8] – Critiquing: National Cancer Institute (NCI) at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) CancerNet “fact sheet”:
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/09/19/critiquing-national-cancer-institute-nci-at-the-national-institutes-of-health-nih-cancernet/
======================================
[9] – Stanislaw Rajmund Burzynski Publications:
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/03/16/stanislaw-rajmund-burzynski-publications/
======================================
[10] – Critiquing: In which the latest movie about Stanislaw Burzynski “cancer cure” is reviewed…with Insolence:
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/07/18/critiquing-in-which-the-latest-movie-about-stanislaw-burzynski-cancer-cure-is-reviewed-with-insolence-2/
======================================
[11] – QUESTIONS the Critics and Cynics, “The Skeptics™” do NOT want to ANSWER:
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/06/23/questions-the-critics-and-cynics-the-skeptics-do-not-want-to-answer/
======================================
[12] – The Biggest Loser: “The Skeptics™” Guy Chapman (guychapman @vGuyUK @SceptiGuy) http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/blahg/ – September 28, 2013 “The Skeptics™” Burzynski discussion: By Bob Blaskiewicz – 2:19:51
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/10/18/the-biggest-loser-the-skeptics-guy-chapman-guychapman-vguyuk-sceptiguy-httpwww-chapmancentral-co-ukblahg-september-28-2013-the-skeptics/
======================================
[13] – Burzynski: Why has the FDA NOT granted Accelerated Approval for Antineoplastons A10 (Atengenal) and AS2-1 (Astugenal) ?:
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/07/28/burzynski-why-has-the-fda-not-granted-accelerated-approval-for-antineoplastons-a10-astengenal-and-as2-1-astugenal/
======================================

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5/24/1993 Court Testimony Of Nicholas Patronas, MD

Dr. Nicholas Patronas, is currently the Senior Clinician, Chief. Section of Neuroradiology, Radiology and Imaging Sciences, National Institutes of Health, NIH Clinical Center
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http://www.cc.nih.gov/drd/staff/nicholas_patronas.html
——————————————————————
Court Testimony Of Nicholas Petronas, MD

(Board-Certified Radiologist Professor of Radiology at Georgetown University, and Founder of the Neuroradiology section of the National Cancer Institute)

Discussing the effectiveness of antineoplaston treatment vs. chemotherapy and radiation treatment in brain cancer

May 24, 1993

Administrative Hearing Docket .503-92-509

License No. D-9377

In The Matter Of The Complaint Against Stanislaw R. Burzynski, M.D.

Before The Texas State Board Of Medical Examiners

Before Earl A. Corbitt, Administrative Law Judge

Volume I of II

May 24, 1993

Pg. 113

Direct Examination

Q: Dr. Petronas, what is your profession?

A: I’m a radiologist, a medical doctor specializing in radiology

Q: Would you tell us briefly your educational background?

A: Well, after the medical school we have a year internship, four years residency in radiology, and in addition I had an entire year of training in neuroradiology

So my subspecialty is neuroradiology

It is the evaluation of the regions of the central nervous system

Pg. 114

Q: And would you relate your work experience, please?

A: when I finished my training I was at the University of Chicago for seven years as a staff radiologist at the University Hospital

And then I moved to the National Institutes of Health where I worked from ’81 to ’85as a staff radiologist at the clinical center, which is the hospital of the National Institutes of Health

Then I moved to Georgetown University where I became full professor of radiology

And the National Institutes of Health contracted Georgetown radiological services, and I was sent from Georgetown back to NIH to cover the section.of Neuroradiology

Q: And so you work at the National Institutes of Health hospital; is that where you work?

A: Yeah, at the hospital initially as a federal employee from ’81to ’85, and then on contract from Georgetown University

So I am one of the 17 radiologists who provide radiological services to the National Institutes of Health

Q: What is the function or purpose of the hospital of the National Institutes of Health?

A: As you know, there are a lot of research protocols that

Pg. 115

are going on, and people who are admitted to this facility are being admitted to try experimental treatment

As they are admitted to the hospital, the hospital requires an X-ray Department and radiologists to man the department

And so we evaluate the various lesions that are being admitted under these approved protocols, and we assess the effectiveness of the treatment given there, using imaging modalities such as MRI or CT scans and regular radiology

Q: And that would be for the various health departments or what’s called institutes?

A: Exactly, the various institutes, yes

Q: Like the National Cancer Institute, that’s one of them?

A: That’s the biggest of all, yeah

Q: What– Basically then, you do the, in layman’s terms, you do all the imaging work and interpretation for the National Cancer Institute testing of drugs?

A: Exactly

Q: Because– and what happens is, they give the drugs to the people and you have to get– they have to have a scan before to see what they had–

A: Exactly

Q: –then when they go into treatment they have to get scans to see what, if any, effect–

A: To see whether they are effective or not, yes

Pg. 116

A: That’s my job, to assess the effectiveness of the drugs that are given there and to provide the diagnosis at the initial stage, upon admission

Q: Dr. Petronas, did there come a time when you became aware of Dr. Burzynski?

A: Yes, it was when Michael Hawkins from NCI asked me to join a group of other physicians and scientist and come to Houston on a site visit to Dr. Burzynski’s Institute in order to assess the best case scenario that he had to present us of his patients who were treated with antineoplastons

So that was the first time when I was aware that there was an anticancer agent

And I was called as an expert in assessing the images to evaluate, together with the rest, the other five members of that team, to evaluate the effectiveness of his treatment

Q: And did you have occasion to actually go down to Houston, Texas?

A: Yes, we spent about seven hours at the Burzynski Institute and we reviewed the material that was given to us

Q: What material did you review?

A: Initially there was a presentation of the cases by Dr. Burzynski; each different case was studied seperately

We were given the history, the pathology, the previous treatment and the timing of these treatments, and we have someone who recorded these data

Pg. 117

Then the histological slides were presented to one of our neuropathologist, one neuropathologist who was also a guest consultant in the team

We reviewed the slides and confirmed the histological of the grade of the tumor that Dr. Burzynski was indicating in his presentation

Then there were assessments of the images, either CT scans or CAT scans, or MRI scans

They were serial studies in any given patient

So we were able to see how the tumor started and how it ended up under treatment

Q: How many patients did you concern yourself with at that time?

A : We reviewed the material of seven cases

We did not have more time to review more

These were the–

Q: So that basically took up the whole day?

A : The whole day. yes; one hour per case

Q: And what happened after you reviewed the cases?

A: Well, we took our notes and we discussed the findings, and there was a report that was issued indicating what we found

Pg. 118

Q: We have marked for identification Exhibit 27

Will you see if you can identify that for us?

A: Yeah, I have seen this

Yeah

Q: And is this– What exactly is this?

A: it was a letter to Dr. Burzynski from Dorothy Macfarlane, one of the people who was part of the team

And the memorandum shows or summarizes are findings for each individual patient

And this is exactly document that we came up with

Q: What was the basic conclusion of the– that you indicated?

A: The basic conclusion was that in five of the patients with brain tumors that were fairly large, the tumor resolved, disappeared

Q: Was that just happenstance?

I mean, was that just by some miracle of–

A: Well, since the treatment given was started after the previous conventional treatments which had failed previously, we took the position that this probably represents the result of this new treatment

And so there was only minimal residual tissue at the tumor bed, which looked like a sca, and had no fissures to support that there was a tumor in the majority of the cases

Two of seven patients did not do very well

One of them deceased

The tumor dissolved at least

Pg. 119

microscopically; we could see it with the naked eye, but it recurred later, a year later

And the other, there was very, very minimal decrease in the size of the tumor

But the tumor was very big, the last one, the seventh, last two cases did not survive, although there was definite improvement in one of the two last cases

Q: I guess that would be called an objective response in that these patients–

A: exactly, because we were six people and we all looked at images and we saw the chronological order

We checked the names of the patients on the films, and the files were obtained at different institutions from the entire country, basically where the patients were located

And we had no reason to believe that these were not the results of the treatments

Q: Doctor, based on what you have testified to before about your background and credentials, it’s fair to say, isn’t it, that you have seen a lot of brain cancer patients?

A: Yes, in fact, we see a lot of these cases

Q: And that’s part of what you do at the hospital, is to evaluate treatments on brain cancer patients?

A: Well, different cancers, but since I am the neuroradiologist I see all brain tumors

And I see a large volume of then

Q: Now, with regard to at least the five patients, I think

Pg. 120

you testified that five of the patients had their tumors resolved, they all–

A: Disappeared

Q: —disappeared

Can you give us some kind of context of that?

How often does that happen with any– with no treatment, just by spontaneous remission, or by whatever it is that you–

A: I’m not aware that spontaneous remission occurs; I don’t think it does

And the available treatment only rarely produce results like that

The only medication– the only treatment, which I think is the last resort, is radiation therapy

Chemotherapy has very little to offer unless there is an experimental protocol somewhere

However, conventional chemotherapy is– provides very little, nothing, basically

Radiation, there are some reports indicating that radiation treatment in children particularly could lead to resolution of the tumors, although I don’t know whether it is a permanent one or temporary

So when this happens it is very rare

And I have seen only isolated here and there where that has happened with radiation

Q: With one case here or there–

A: Yeah

Q: –an isolated report, you are talking about on a case by

Pg. 121

case basis?

A: Yeah

Well, radiation should give these results, if it works at all, the first two months after completion of the treatment

In these cases, all the patients had already failed radiation because they were treated months, several months after radiation was
given and had failed

Q: What happens with these patients?

Lets say they failed radiation; what happens then to the patient with brain cancer?

A: Well, it depends on the grade of the tumor

If the tumor is low grade, astrocytoma, and we are talking about primary gliomas, if it is low grade, survival for years is possible

If it is an intermediate grade, the anaplastic, the mean survival is two years, and if it is the high grade glioma the mean survival is about 12 months

That’s it; they die in 12 months, they disappear

Q: Now– So are you saying basically for someone that’s failed radiation– It sounds like you are saying that if someone has already failed radiation, at least, that there’s not too much else–

A: nothing to offer, exactly

Q: –and that these people are going to eventually die of their disease, barring any unforeseen event or cure?

A: Exactly

Q: and there is nothing that any– that you could do at NCI?

Pg. 122

A: Nothing we can do, no; not at the present time

Q: All right

What about these five patients that are all basically doing– how come they lived?

A: Well, it’s amazing, the fact that they are living and some of them are doing well

They are not– they are not handicapped from the side effects of any treatment, and worse than the tumor itself

So these particular individuals not only survived, but they didn’t have major side effects

So I think it is impressive and unbelievable

Q: How many times have you ever seen this, in your experience, that someone comes with a drug like this, to have this kind of effect?

How often does that happen?

A: I don’t– I have not seen it at any time with the medication that is given systematically

We have done– we have an experimental protocol at the NIH where we inject a chemotherapeutic agent through the carotid artery, the artery that goes to the brain, and we have three survivals with this technique, by providing massive amounts of chemotherapeutic drugs to the brain that harbors the tumor

And we destroy the tumor, but we destroy a large part of the brain as well, and the patients became severely handicapped, and a life that’s not worth living

Pg. 123

And so I have three cases with this particular experimental protocol which resulted in killing the tumor, but a large part of the healthy brain as well

So overall the protocol was abandoned and is not any more in effect because of the serious side effects that we witnessed

Q: Now, let me ask your opinion or advice

Based on what you have seen from these patients– I mean, I think the opinion actually, or the letter actually concludes that the site team concluded that there was antitumor effect from the antineoplastons

What would happen, let’s say for some reason Dr. Burzynski’s brain tumor patients can’t get the medicine any more and have to go off treatment

What’s going to happen to them, in your opinion?

A: I think these patients will die

Pg. 124

Q: One of the patients you reviewed was F.M.; is that correct?

What happened in his case?

A: The tumor was very large and very involved the hypothalamus, a very sensitive part of the brain cannot be operated, and had both cystic components and fleshy components, mass like

And the lesion disappeared

This patient did not have previous treatment, if I recall, other than– previous chemotherapy or radiation, and the tumor disappeared under our eyes

It was a low grade astrocytoma, wich is comparable with long survival

However, even those low grade astrocytomas, when we see them, they don’t go away even though they may permit the person to live for many years

In this particular patients case the tumor disappeared, and there was a small, tiny remnant left, small percentage of the original size

And there has been several years since then and the patient is well, I’m told

Q: So at least for the patient you would not recommend that

Pg. 125

he go off the treatment, would you?

A: No
======================================
Critiquing: Dr. Michael A. Friedman, Dr. Mario Sznol, Robert B. Lanman, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, Mayo Clinic, Department of Health & Human Services (HHS), Public Health Service, Quality Assurance and Compliance Section, Regulatory Affairs Branch (RAB), Cancer Therapy Evaluation Program (CTEP), Division of Cancer Treatment (DCT), National Cancer Center (NCI) at the National Institutes of Health (NIH), Stanislaw Burzynski: On the arrogance of ignorance about cancer and targeted therapies:
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/09/08/critiquing-stanislaw-burzynski-on-the-arrogance-of-ignorance-about-cancer-and-targeted-therapies/
======================================
Critiquing: National Cancer Institute (NCI) at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) CancerNet “fact sheet”:
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/09/19/critiquing-national-cancer-institute-nci-at-the-national-institutes-of-health-nih-cancernet/
======================================

[5] – 1991 (11/15/1991) – Dr. Michael J. Hawkins to Decision Network

This page is linked to:
=====================================
Critiquing: Dr. Michael A. Friedman, Dr. Mark G. Malkin, Dr. Mario Sznol, Robert B. Lanman, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, Mayo Clinic, Department of Health & Human Services (HHS), Public Health Service, Quality Assurance and Compliance Section, Regulatory Affairs Branch (RAB), Cancer Therapy Evaluation Program (CTEP), Division of Cancer Treatment (DCT), National Cancer Center (NCI) at the National Institutes of Health (NIH), Stanislaw Burzynski: On the arrogance of ignorance about cancer and targeted therapies
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/09/08/critiquing-stanislaw-burzynski-on-the-arrogance-of-ignorance-about-cancer-and-targeted-therapies/
======================================
[5] – 1991 (11/15/1991) – Dr. Michael J. Hawkins to Decision Network
——————————————————————
Michael J. Hawkins, M.D., Chief, Investigational Drug Branch, Department of Health &Human Services (HHS), Public Health Service, National Institutes of Health (NIH), National Cancer Institute (NCI)

Re: Antineoplaston

[7 pgs. – 1 pg.]

To: Decision Network

Attached is a summary of a review of a best case series of antineoplastons in the treatment of brain tumors which was conducted by CTEP at the Burzynski Research Institute and some background information on antineoplastons A10 and AS2-1

7 patient cases were presented at the site visit and the records, pathology slides and scans documenting response were reviewed

It was the opinion of the site visit team that antitumor activity was documented in this best case series and that the conduct of Phase II trials was indicated to determine the response rate

At the DN meeting, Dr. Burzynski will present some brief background data on antineoplastons and Dr. Nicholas Patronas, a neuroradiologist from the Clinical Center who was on the site visit team, will review the radiologic findings for the committee

Antineoplastons are being proposed for DN IV (Phase II trials)

We feel the 1st step is to confirm the observations of Dr. Burzynski in brain tumors

Initially 3 or 4 Phase II trials would be conducted (one trial in each of the following diseases: glioblastoma multiforme, anaplastic astrocytoma, pediatric brain tumors and possibly low grade astrocytomas) using antineoplaston A10 and AS2-1 in exactly the same manner Dr. Burzynski gave them in the cases we reviewed

A decision regarding subsequent trials (e.g.–other tumors, additional Phase I development, Phase III trials in brain tumors, etc) would be deferred until the results of these initial trials were known

Dr. Burzynski is willing to provide sufficient antineoplaston A10 and AS2-1 for these studies

The only impact on DCT would be the IND filing and the use of our clinical trials resources

cc: Dr. Burzynski

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======================================

[4] – 1991 (10/31/1991) – Dr. Michael A. Friedman Memorandum to Dr. Bruce A. Chabner (1 pg.)

This page is linked to:
=====================================
Critiquing: Dr. Michael A. Friedman, Dr. Mark G. Malkin, Dr. Mario Sznol, Robert B. Lanman, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, Mayo Clinic, Department of Health & Human Services (HHS), Public Health Service, Quality Assurance and Compliance Section, Regulatory Affairs Branch (RAB), Cancer Therapy Evaluation Program (CTEP), Division of Cancer Treatment (DCT), National Cancer Center (NCI) at the National Institutes of Health (NIH), Stanislaw Burzynski: On the arrogance of ignorance about cancer and targeted therapies
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/09/08/critiquing-stanislaw-burzynski-on-the-arrogance-of-ignorance-about-cancer-and-targeted-therapies/
======================================
[4] – 1991 (10/31/1991) – Dr. Michael A. Friedman Memorandum to Dr. Bruce A. Chabner (1 pg.)
——————————————————————
Michael A. Friedman, M.D., Associate Director, Cancer Therapy Evaluation Program (CTEP), Department of Health &Human Services (HHS), National Institutes of Health (NIH), National Cancer Institute (NCI)

Memorandum

(Unconventional Therapy File. – written in)

Subject: Antineoplastons

To: Bruce A. Chabner, M.D.
Director, Division of Cancer Treatment

I thought you would be interested in this for several reasons:

1. Our Unconventional Cancer Treatment approach seems to be working well (thanks to Mike Hawkins).

2. Our on-site review process is working well (thanks to Dorothy Macfarlane)

3. Antineoplastons deserve a closer look

It turns out that the agents are well defined, pure chemical entities

They are relatives of Thalidomide with presumed good CNS penetration

We are working with DTEP on them

The human brain tumor responses are real

We will keep you informed

(Mike Why not test These in a phase II trial – written in)

20130912-213924.jpg

[3] – 1991 (10/30/1991) – Dr. Dorothy K. Macfarlane Memorandum – 10/4/1991 – site visit (5 pgs.)

This page is linked to:
=====================================
Critiquing: Dr. Michael A. Friedman, Dr. Mark G. Malkin, Dr. Mario Sznol, Robert B. Lanman, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, Mayo Clinic, Department of Health & Human Services (HHS), Public Health Service, Quality Assurance and Compliance Section, Regulatory Affairs Branch (RAB), Cancer Therapy Evaluation Program (CTEP), Division of Cancer Treatment (DCT), National Cancer Center (NCI) at the National Institutes of Health (NIH), Stanislaw Burzynski: On the arrogance of ignorance about cancer and targeted therapies
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/09/08/critiquing-stanislaw-burzynski-on-the-arrogance-of-ignorance-about-cancer-and-targeted-therapies/
======================================
[3] – 1991 (10/30/1991) – Dr. Dorothy K. Macfarlane Memorandum – 10/4/1991 – site visit (5 pgs.)
——————————————————————
Dorothy K. Macfarlane, M.D., Head, Quality Assurance and Compliance Section, Regulatory Affairs Branch (RAB), Cancer Therapy Evaluation Program (CTEP), Department of Health &Human Services (HHS), National Institutes of Health (NIH), National Cancer Institute (NCI)

Review of Brain Tumor Cases Treated With Antineoplastons

On 10/4/1991, Cancer Therapy Evaluation Program (CTEP) staff (Dr. Michael Hawkins, Dr. Michael Hamilton, Dr. Dorothy Macfarlane) and invited consultants (Dr. Nicholas Patronas, neuroradiologist, National Institutes of Health (NIH) Clinical Center, and Dr. James Nelson, neuropathologist, AFIP) visited the offices of Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski in Houston, Texas to review 7 selected brain tumor cases which Dr. Burzynski felt represented the best responses achieved with Antineoplastons A10 and AS2-1 treatment

Following is a summary of each case history, as described by Dr. Burzynski, and the assessment of slides and scans by the review team

Patient #1 (E.L.)
Patient #2 (P.W.)

Pg. 2

Patient #2 (P.W.)
Patient #3 (J.K.)

Pg. 3

Patient #3 (J.K.)
Patient #4 (P.M.)
Patient #5 (H.E.)

Pg. 4

Patient #5 (H.E.)
Patient #6 (R.W.)

Pg. 5

Patient #6 (R.W.)
Patient #7 (H.M.)

Dorothy K. Macfarlane, M.D.

Distribution:

Dr. Michael Friedman
Dr. Michael Hawkins
Dr. Michael Hamilton
Dr. Nicholas Patronas
Dr. James Nelson
Dr. Michael Grever

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20130912-195656.jpg

20130912-200248.jpg

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[2] – 1991 (10/30/1991) – Dr. Dorothy K. Macfarlane letter to Burzynski

This page is linked to:
=====================================
Critiquing: Dr. Michael A. Friedman, Dr. Mark G. Malkin, Dr. Mario Sznol, Robert B. Lanman, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, Mayo Clinic, Department of Health & Human Services (HHS), Public Health Service, Quality Assurance and Compliance Section, Regulatory Affairs Branch (RAB), Cancer Therapy Evaluation Program (CTEP), Division of Cancer Treatment (DCT), National Cancer Center (NCI) at the National Institutes of Health (NIH), Stanislaw Burzynski: On the arrogance of ignorance about cancer and targeted therapies
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/09/08/critiquing-stanislaw-burzynski-on-the-arrogance-of-ignorance-about-cancer-and-targeted-therapies/
======================================
[2] – 1991 (10/30/1991) – Dorothy K. Macfarlane, M.D., Head, Quality Assurance and Compliance Section, Regulatory Affairs Branch (RAB), Cancer Therapy Evaluation Program (CTEP), Department of Health &Human Services (HHS), Public Health Service, National Institutes of Health (NIH), National Cancer Institute (NCI), sent a one page letter:

Dear Dr. Burzynski:

Enclosed is a copy of the report summarizing our review of the responses seen in 7 brain tumor cases treated by you with Antineoplastons A10 and AS2-1

Dr. Michael Hawkins will be communicating with you at a later date with regard to the question of possibly conducting a confirmatory trial under Division of Cancer Treatment sponsorship

We thank you for your help and cooperation in making these cases available for our review, and for your kind hospitality during our visit

cc: Dr. Michael Hawkins

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