Dr. Li-Chuan Chin, PhD, National Cancer Institute Scientist (1991-1997) talks about Dr. Burzynski and Antineoplastons

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The American Medical Establishment
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The medical establishment of the United States is very undemocratic – to put it mildly
Now, this is a guy coming from Taiwan in 1984
Under Chiang Kai-shek, we still had martial law at that time
So, you cannot speak your mind, otherwise you would find yourself in jail, or in a very “hot position”
So, in a way, I came to this country for higher education, is because I was quite vocal against “KMT” (Kuomintang), or Chiang Kai-shek
My parents and other relatives, they had managerial positions, and they all had to be members of the party
So they don’t like me to speak too loud about anything against the party
So I said, “alright, I’ll go to the United States anyway”
So, I come here
I went to University of Kentucky to get my PhD
And then, after writing the report on Burzynski, I suddenly find myself: Gee, it’s a “kiss of death” to my professional career — because, look at JAMA
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Special Communication
Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) – June 3, 1992
‘Antineoplastons’
An Unproven Cancer Therapy
Saul Green, PhD

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JAMA could print a comment criticizing Burzynski, and now I’m writing a report, a report saying that Antineoplaston has some merit to it, and you’ve got to look into it
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Evaluation of the Anticancer Activities of Antineoplastons and Related Compounds, Including Phenylacetate, Phenylacetylglutamine, 3-Phenylacetylamino-2, 6-piperidinedione and their respective Analogs

Li-Chuan Chin, Ph.D.
Office of Alternative Medicine
National Institutes of Health
October 24, 199?

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So halfway through writing the report, it suddenly dawned on me, that might be the end of my professional career, because they’re a bunch of academic professors, they wrote things ferociously bad
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Oncologists criticize methods used in researching cancer treatment

Published Thursday, October 1, 1998
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about Burzynski’s Antineoplastons, and I have evidence and a report to say: Antineoplaston worth a second look”
How would they view me – professionally ?
And so I know in my heart that that’s the end of my professional career
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NCI: The National Cancer Institute
NIH: The National Institutes of Health
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The National Cancer Institute and the National Institutes of Health:
I found it’s a place full of people with ego of titanic proportions
You know, they are all like working for their career, working for their fame and rich
Sometimes their hearts are not there for the patients
They are more interested in their own benefit, and in the end, that’s what I realized
So, it was a disappointment
You know, they say, NIH is the mega medical center
But when you look back at the past 10, 20 years — very few Nobel Prize winner come out of NIH
And they got all the budget
They got all the money to do research
So even if you give me $1 million dollars to go back to NIH, I won’t
I won’t
I wouldn’t do anything against my conscience
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A two-party medical system ?
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So, eventually what I found out is that the culture is “split in two”
One is “orthodox”
The other one is “alternative”
You’ve got this “orthodox culture,” and then there’s a culture living around it
And it’s fascinating
Politically, it’s like, well, you have the dominant party, and they rule the country, and there are fringe groups and opposition parties here and there, you know
And if the authorities are not too harsh on them, sometimes they got a niche — they are surviving (laughing)
You know, it’s, in some ways to me, it’s very interesting cultural phenomenon
Yeah
And finding that in a democratic country like United States, and you
have this medical tyranny there
In tyrannies, or in authoritarian societies, a lot of the time, people would refrain from speaking the truth
Ok
The atmosphere is there to prevent you speaking your mind
Even if you see the truth
The scare tactic is enough to force a lot of people not to speak the truth within the medical field
If that fear is there, people will do things to avoid harm to their professional life, to their family life, to them personally
And it’ll perpetuate the fear for ever and ever
So it’s very difficult to delineate, say, “ahhh, it’s because of the health industry,” “it’s because of pharmaceutical companies,” the (?) of whatever
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Utilizing the two-party medical system
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What is your opinion, like if we wanna sort of get ourselves out of this mess ?
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Well my opinion is this:
If I was President of a country I would split my health budget in research into two portions
One for the medical establishment
One for the alternative field
And I’d say, “in the end of the day,” or “in the end of the year, come and show me the result”
If you get better results than the other, then I’ll take the portion of budget out a little bit and put it into yours
Put into the winners
And if you continue to lose, you lose your budget
If there’s two-party system, like, in democracy, often time, let’s have two-party system in medicine, and let them run with the budget, and come back in the end and say: “Which cat catches the most mice” ?
And this is what the general population wants
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Clip from the 2nd DVD of
Burzynski Cancer Is Serious Business
2 DVD Extended Edition Set
7:44
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Pete Cohen chats with Dr. Juan F. Martinez-Canca, Neurosurgeon (Consultant) about Hannah Bradley

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Juan F. Martinez-Canca – Consultant – Neurosurgeon
(20:31)
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So tell me a little about brain tumors

When did you kind of first come across your first brain tumor ?

My very first brain tumor was in high school, unknown entity, fascinating, enigmatic

Unknown, is the word

Uh yes, I hoped

I must say the uh vocation initially in my case came at an early stage in my life

I remember very well, 3 years old saying I will be a doctor, a doctor, a doctor, and gradually I became aware of this vocation from neurosurgery but really I didn’t know what from because of vocations like see it
I put in my soul, so what ?
Here we are

vocation
realize that in the following years
My first professional brain tumor was impressed in 1996, something called glioblastoma multiforme, and I was uh, uh, shocked, and thrilled, and excited by seeing a nasty glioma as my register described it

And I was uh in as you can see my poor English
I just wrote in my notebook nasty glioma must be nasty in the history of classification

That person died, unfortunately after a few months, it was a very bad disease, at that stage, was really advanced and uh that was my first ? with reality
The glioblastoma, or nasty gliomas kill people
And that was the starting point of a, of a very complex process that I am still never looking (?)
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Hannah’s Operation (1:35)
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In the case of Hannah we wanted to wake her up to make sure that we could remove the whole entire ter (?) as much as we can see, or feel it, without damaging, basic structures

Language, relation with outside world, movement, etcetera, etcetera

That requires a very specific and very expert high expertise from the, from the surgeon, because normally everyone is not awake during this
It’s a very specific operation

Mr ? we were lucky, was there to do it, and I was lucky enough to be the co-pilot

So we performed this procedure
I can’t remember the date now

April, the 1st

April
Correct
Good date
So

April Fools Day

On April the 1st we awakened ?
and I remember very well, that huge feeling of satisfaction, at the end of the procedure

I have, I still have my pictures, do you remember ?

We were taking some pictures during the operation
and that is ? like a trophy, because some people are not very good, some of the people are not very well, but in this case we had fantastic surgeon, a fantastic patient, and a great environment, and it worked very well
And the end of the operation, I remember seeing Hannah’s brain without physical tumor, microscopic means with the eyes
Of course, millions and millions of cells still widespread in the brain
A tumor is never a circumscribed entity
It goes all over the place
Nevertheless, it was a very satisfactory physical procedure
We send the samples for histological purposes
and unfortunately we were wrong, because it was not a grade 2, not a grade 1, it was a grade 3 tumor
? the next step
The grading of the tumors
When grade 1’s and 2’s, usually consider the good guys in the field
But not a good thing to have a brain tumor, but you have to choose, choose a grade 1, or a grade 2
Grades 3 and 4 featured by malignancy
By aggressiveness
They are far more active tumors than the 1’s and 2’s
Maybe the grow much bigger, and they are far more aggressive than the other 2
Specially grade 4
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(3:42)
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So you got out most of it, yeah ?

Yeah, it was fun but got a good job here because you’ve got most of the tumor out, and we have Hannah talking, moving, and uh conversing normally
She was no percentage (?) deficit
At some point during the operation she had some stuff, a fitting, some sort of vagueness and she couldn’t talk very well, so we had to stop right away, and change the level of, of oxygenation, but other the operation, microscopically speaking, the whole tumor was taken away

So the tumor was taken away, so it was a success, but in the back of your mind did you know that, did, the job was not complete ?

We always know
We always know that
Except when we are talking with a benign meningeal (?) grade 1 that we can take physically lump away
Except in those cases of rare, rare success and joy
Most of the tumors we know, have millions of cells that remain in the brain, and they can be very, very aggressive

So, did you know in the back of your mind that what you were really doing, in this case, was probably just prolonging her life ?

Uh, in a way we are providing a setting, for a 2nd stage therapy to take place
Certainly, if we do nothing about it in the large (?), which is a (?) part of her brain, Hannah had little chance to survive, many weeks from now
Once the whole thing developed, we knew it was a count down
We need to do 2 things, to establish a way to help her to prolong her life with best programs
That’s, is a universally accepted
Removing a tumor is no longer an option
Again, I believe that (camcorder ?)

Yeah

So Hannah had radiotherapy, and you saw the scans after the radiotherapy, and, and what did you see ?

Ok
We decided, no Hannah decided to go through conventional pathways of treating of tumors, which is oncology medicine (?)
She had radiotherapy, which aim is to kill the remaining cells we have not been able to remove, remove in surgery

So, that happens, and Hannah had a shrinking stage of uh of things, with subsequent scans show the suc success
It was not much tumor
However, the remaining amount of cells were there from day one
We knew they existed, and they were visible on the scan
We could actually produce the scans later right ?

Yeah

And I will show you pictures of Hannah
And we knew there was (reserve ?) tumor
The aim of the radiotherapy was to try and kill these remnants of tumor that have remained behind
In her case, it was not much tumor left, because we know that subsequent scans were done following radiotherapy
Still the small areas of tumor highlighting halo were still here, as you, as a (?), as a reminder, of the main tumor

Inevitably those cells would progress again, to a further tumor, and usually, to a high grade tumor where the tumor progressed, normally is not rare, to see that they, scale one grade
So, the fear here with Hannah was get, this grade 3, would progress to grade 4 at some point
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Dr. Martinez on Dr. Burzynski (6:50)
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Quite obviously you knew that I did a lot of investigating

I looked for people in the world who were still alive, who had uh, this type of tumor

I spoke to you

You told me, of, some things uh, and I’d mentioned to you Dr. Burzynski

What did you

What did you think about that when I 1st mentioned it to you ?

Well, when you mentioned that to me I didn’t know Dr. Burzynski at all

I knew there were some people going to Houston for some therapy, among them, one well known Spanish singer, but she’s well known, very well known actually, going from a, from a another kind of tumor, not a, not a brain tumor
But I knew vaguely about this a, this a person in, in Texas, with his uh fancy treatment, challenging establishment, but, as I said, a little
amount of, of knowledge in my brain
in my brain
Well, I knew immediately when you mentioned that, as well as other options that we discussed, I looked at every option you’ve showed me, because you were really active in looking and intimate, in the literature
You gave me 2 or 3 main leads of reading, but certainly Burzynski came as the most solid one, because the rest of them you gave me were really experimental therapies, with little or no success, and uh more in my dimension but more imagination than technique, with them
So, I look at Burzynski’s story, and was almost immediately moved about, about his personal uh yearning
Is a person who has been, how many years now ?
20+ ?

30

30+, sorry, fighting against the very powerful medical establishment, and subjected to court judgments, to punishment by a, by a (?) community, to intense scrutiny, and uh, ostracized by the so-called uh conventional doctors
Despite that, 30 years + later, still doing his business, in fact, the most important thing, with a huge amount of people, smiling, alive, and very healthy following the diagnosis of the tumor
To me that was something revealing
No matter whether this man advocates, on praying to the moon, or going to the sea, (whatever it is ?)
The fact is the fact
He has a large # of patients, alive and well, following diagnosis of tumor
In fact, the most important, children, at the age of 3 or 4, being treated by this uh therapy, reaching 30’s, reaching 20’s, and alive, and very nice, this a living example, that this man, is not uh, selling air
Ok
For that I went to the films, available to everyone on the Internet, on YouTube, except the usual terms of communication
I dislike very much, they commit (?)
I really dislike it
But, I must admit it was a good way, to put the facts to the public
This way
The main criticism of Burzynski in the scientific community, is the lack of reliable communications
That, that’s a fact
I will not go into this during this interview, this chat

Yeah

Ok
Because I think it’s a matter for, further discussion
I only go to the physical facts that you can see
In the last court proceedings, there were a large # of supporters, saying, we are the living example, of this process isn’t pantomime (?)
Well I think in my humble microscopical opinion, Burzyn, Burzynski’s trying to do, is to show another way to treat cancer

Another way which directs completely from the current guidelines
The current guidelines are full of financial interests, are full of international agreements, and of course someone who attempts to upset this structure will face serious adversity
This man is brave enough to put his person, his family, his world, on the spot, to fight for the truth
To me, it’s clear
This guy, not going into details again, I don’t want to go into technical details today, because something for further discussion, but only the facts he’s presented, is strong enough to stop and think about it
That’s why, I would like to say, in the 1st instance

And obviously you’ve seen Hannah’s su, scans, and you saw her last scan, and you can see uh her

Well since you told me about this, I intense look at the Internet again, all the available evidence, I looked at his, uh, not publications but at his data
I, I have no peer-review qualifications yet, about Burzynski’s cases, but I look at practical cases
Too many, to be a random chance of, oh this is, she has a one in a million
No, it has, many ones in a million to be a chance
So this man is presenting something serious
So, I ask (?) (?)
Forced to do, because, I thought, ok, what you face here is a conventional radiotherapy, chemotherapy, but if you look at the #’s, that is again, in the public domain, people with grade 3’s, will not survive longer
Grade 4’s, do not survive longer
My duty as doctor is to tell the patient, the person with the grade 4 tumor, you have about 11 months to live without treatment
Be lucky
With treatment is unpredictable
(I don’t know ? or all along ?)
But the #’s are #’s
If you look at the data, people die very quickly from a grade 4
Grade 3, follows very closely
So I thought, there’s nothing to lose by this therapy, because #1 is not incompatible wha, with what you have been doing so far, and it gives you a chance to change perspective, to change environment
Go to a different setting, and try it
That’s a fact (?)
Plus the fact that many, many, many people are being treated (?)
under this guidance, and they are surviving very well, and they are alive

Mmm

Hannah’s case
When are you going to Texas ?

We went in December

December
Well you come back just a few days ago

We came back 3 weeks ago in January

So in that period Hannah had her tumor treated with antineoplastons, and there has already been a scan, which shows shrinking of 15%

Yeah

Is such a long, long journey, you have a nice little period, a month and a 1/2 maybe ?

Yeah

After so many months of punishment and suffering, and which have a nice (result ?)
Plus, the emotion of Hannah
Hannah has come back to normal, I think
I remember her very depressed and the beginning of story, and not having any single hope in her mind
I remember a video where she was crying
Now she has this chuckle in the video when she is joking about the scan, and so positive and optimistic, and the results cannot be more promising
That, in my view, (certain was seen ?) in detail, I think
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Hannah’s MRI scans (13:34)
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Take a look at this
This area of bright, intensity here, is not in the right, so poorly, is abnormal
And that was the 1st pictures we saw for Hannah
And some people said, that must be a stroke because of this a straight line there, and there
Normally, as a rule of thumb, something with a wedge shape, tends to be a stroke, because the vessel, providing blood, opens in the small vessels in a wedge fashion
It look a stroke to me actually, to, to be, to be honest, the very fact that we thought it was a stroke, but then we came to recognize it was a tumor, for all the features in (?)
So this is the 1st picture
If we look at the, on the side of the screen, we have now a different view
Instead of looking from the feet, we’re looking at front of Hannah
Eyes are here
That’s the brain
Left side
Right side
Look at the left side, because we know, the tumor’s (?) on the left
We look to go, deeper in her head, and we see, a dark area
It’s a different fashion (?) and that’s why you can see the white, becomes like a black
And you can see, the edges of this is strange, formation
Clearly abnormal because nothing there in the side
So this, was the question for the individual
What is it ?
So after a little bit of discussion we came to the conclusion that thought it was a glioma, tumor, from description, in the brain
So

This is after the operation

After the operation

Operation

This is the 17th through the 4th

Yep
We go on the right side better because this is the film
We see here something very clear
I want to get another view, so you understand a little bit better
Yeah, this
In this view, you can see
Can you see that ?

Yep

You can see the (?)
The chunk of bone, we take away, to go into the brain
And these are screws and plates, to keep things in place
2 screws, one little plate
And there, the other one
Ok ?
So this is the axis
Let’s put it on the right so you can see it better
Here, you can see it much better how the craniotomy is performed with one hole, one drill, to put the, the saw and drill away, and you can lift this cover
Ok ?
At the end of the operation we put this plates, one there, one there, one there, and one there, as you can see
2 little plates
2 little screws with one plate to fix the hole
Ok ?
And then, the skin itself
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The Future for the Treatment of Cancer (16:18)
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So, so how do you think uh brain tumors will be treated in the future ?

That’s a, that’s a very good question
Uh, certainly not this way
Let me give an answer for another time
But certainly not this way, because uh the chemotherapy, the main, the main group of chemotherapy is that, it is itself a killing agent
You are using, destructive element, to try and prolong life
In, in itself makes no sense to me
Of course, the, the argument for that from the, from the (chemical ?) companies, from the people who produce this (?), excuse me, this doctor, we are saving lives, and it’s true
This is the only way, officially admitted today, to treat tumors, chemotherapy

So do you think we’ll have a cure for cancer ?

I’m hope it is
I think it’s coming, actually, but uh, but uh, it’s not accepted

Then you think Dr. Burzynski’s really on to something ?

Definitely
The evidence is overwhelming
He’s not I think, the evidence
What I think is irrelevant
Oh my opinion is one opinion in, in millions of them
But if you look at the facts, Dr. Burzynski is achieving things
It’s not, it’s not promising
Is it
It’s the delivery of things
If, if I don’t understand it incorrectly
The head of our patients, he’s an ex-patient of cancer
Am I right ?
This girl had a brain tumor
Hannah was talking to people have been cured
So this is a fact
This is not tales
This is not uh, uh, selling, thin air
This man, whatever he’s doing, because of his story
Part of his secret agenda, the
chemicals (?)
be explained
I not asking for the patent of his things
I don’t, I don’t care anyway
But he’s working with compounds, with substances created by this man, that cure people

So why do you think more people aren’t receptive, to the, you know, other oncologists, neurosurgeons ?

That’s a very complex question because uh we are fighting against a very well established protocol of producing doctors that think in a very particular way
Who, whoever decides to direct from that way of thinking is in hot water
Invariably
The scientific community these days, is uh biased by peer-reviewed publications, commonly accepted guidelines, and there’s no space whatsoever, for any, eh, diversion from the norm
Put it this way
Ok
I’m not saying that I directed (?) from norm
I’m not here to argue the system, but I am here, to ask questions
I would like to ask questions
Why, we have to accept
I was in medical school, and I was told by a pediatrician, (?) of the (?) service, babies should a stop breast feeding at the month #4, and they start with these magic formulas for babies
At that, at that point I believed
At that point I was a very young medical student
I said, (?) the head of pediatricians tell me, my baby has to stop breast feeding, at the age of 4 months, must be true
He is a doctor, but he’s a stupid (doc ?
I am so sorry to disagree
He was delivering, a very nasty message
Basically you should continue, 2 years away, 3 years away, when the baby says, that’s it
Naturally stop the breast feeding
You understand what I mean ?
So, in the same fashion, the oncologist delivers the message that they have been taught, by the teachers
And then you go up in the scale
Ok
If you go up in the pyramid, the top of the pyramid is usually money, eh, economic interests, political interests, namely
We go outside the core mains of medicine
That’s why my complaint
That’s why my fight here
I would like to ask those things
I may be wrong, by at the end of the day
I may be
I don’t know
I don’t know all the answers
But if at the end of very good search, I am convinced that this is the only way, I say, I am sorry
I had to ask
Go back to the norm
But (?)
I totally suspect that the norm is wrong
There must be another way
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http://www.neurokonsilia.com/About-Us.html
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Pete Cohen chats with Sonali Patil, Ph.D., Research Scientist at The Burzynski Clinic

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1/2012Sonali Patil, Ph.D., Research Scientist at The Burzynski Clinic
(18:22) 9/18/2012
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So you, you, you’re a scientist here ?

I’m a scientist here

And, and you work, just with antineoplastons ?

Not necessarily
This is our cell biology lab, and in molecular biology we do basic research on the antineoplastons
Sometimes we also study it in combination with the other, uh, medicines that Dr. Burzynski is interested in
So, but mostly antineoplaston
This is looking at mechanism for action
Trying to understand how it treats the cancer cells, is able to kill the cancer cells without damaging the other cells of the body
So mostly antineoplaston is the target here

And what do you think about
antineoplastons ?

We have found, uh, very interesting, uh, molecular pathways targets that antineoplaston is targeting, working very effectively to kill the cells, um, probably better than many other drugs, because, um, it has multiple targets, and so attacks the cells from many different angles, and is able to kill the cancer cells, more effectively

So, can I ask you, how did you come to work in, th, the Burzynski
the institution ?

Through an advertisement, it was
My position was advertised
I started 8 years ago, and

So ok
So it was advertised

Mhmm

So when you applied for the job, were you aware of the controversy of, (comments to self: learn to talk)
So when, when did you find out ?

Uh, eh, as soon as I joined (laughing)

Oh yeah ?

Few months later
I thought, it’s easy to find
It’s not hard

Of course

It’s not even, uh

Wha, what about any of you other colleagues, that prior to coming here ?
I mean, did they say anything to you, like, you know ?

Well they brought something up
(?) in, uh, uh, being there for him during this trial, my boss, my previous boss was here before me
Uh, so I have a very open picture of it, and it doesn’t bother me
He came up against it and won

Yeah

So that’s a good thing

An, and why do you think, it kinda hasn’t been, kinda lost the word, hasn’t taken off, you know ?
Has the scientific community hasn’t really embraced ?

Well anything that is non-traditional always, you know, takes its own time to get to people
Besides, the traditionalists don’t want it coming out because, uh, it affects, a lot of other things, um, finance, in, in the big Pharma

Right

that is affected by this
So, um, if it, if it were, um, a medicine already with another big company, it probably would already be out in the market by now, but, uh, it’s because it’s one man’s show
He’s fighting against, uh, traditional medicine, big, big centers like M.D. Anderson right here in Houston
So, most people want to believe, uh, what the other doctors, the oncologists, are telling them, because that’s what everybody does
So very few filter out of that and come looking for him, because they’ve lost hope there, and they’ve tried everything else, and they come because; which I wish they wouldn’t, come here as a last resort, you know

Mmm

and, by then, sometimes, uh, enough damage has been done that is sometimes even he cannot cure
It’s not magic
It’s
There’s a logic to the way the medicine works
The science behind it is not, it’s not just a magic bullet
So, and you have to target it at the right time
Catch cancer at the right time

So I have a, friend of my mother’s at home, whose spent, her whole, academic career, 20, 30 years, researching, astrocytomas

Mhmm

And, uh, you know, I did my research, and, I was no doubt that we were coming here
No question
My, my research was more based on people

Excuse me

On people
Talking to people who had been treated, and seeing the results, and then looking at the research afterwards, and she was just saying that “I’ve spent all my years, research, and research, and research, I can’t find anything, that validates, this, this treatment
Now I’m not asking you to comment on what she said, but,

No, validation, validation basically means, uh, proof in scientific community
If you’re not accepted into the scientific community, you’re not going to be able to present that truth, and we go and present at conferences all the time, eh, when it comes to publishing papers, uh, we haven’t been very successful
Dr. Burzynski has published, uh, a lot of data of his patients
So it’s out there

Yeah

If you, if you want to believe it, and you’re looking for it, you’ll find it

Yeah

It’s just, um, it’s not in the mainstream places, because it gets rejected out of there
Um, it’ll probably take some time to get into those spots where everybody else is publishing, and everybody else is talking about it, but it doesn’t mean that it’s not true

So obviously you’re here on a daily basis
So when was the 1st

Last 8years

So the last 8 years
When was the 1st time you actually saw, was it in the dish where you actually saw it ?

Well we see it, we’ve seen it for years before I came here

Yeah, but when was the 1st time you saw it, when you came here yourself and you saw ?

Well we see it every day
Um, we have cancer cells in the lab, that we treat, with the medicine
We see them dying
We see them undergoing a necrosis, which is the cancer deaths, pathway, that most people study and talk about

So

So, it’s happening, it’s happening in front of our eyes everyday
So, we have proof for it
you know (?)
We just have to get it out there, and there’s a, there’s a system to all that

Um

and were trying to, get it through the system, and get it out there

So what, when you 1st realized there is something here, did you not just feel like just shouting from the rooftops and telling everybody?

Well I wasn’t the one who discovered
He did, in the ’80’s

Yeah

and since then he’s been shouting from the rooftop
It’s just, nobody would listen to him

Yeah, yeah

So, you know, we’re just doing the, uh, actually it’s backwards
People usually do, uh, pre-clinical research 1st, because the medicine

Mhmm

goes out and to the patients, and we, we are kind of doing it, the other way around
He already has patient data
He’s been treating people
on this
People, survivors walking around, to tell the story, and now we are being made to understand how it works in the cells
So, it’s, it’s kinda doing, the research, after the trials

Just tell me
One more question
What’s it like
How would you describe Dr. Burzynski ?

I admire his, uh, passion, for what he does
He truly believes in what he does, and to me that’s, that’s a big thing
If you don’t believe in yourself, then nobody else will, and, his memory
He, he has tremendous memory, and, uh, uh, quick thinking
He’s able to piece together stuff, uh, research articles, papers, put together puzzle, come up with a theory
He does that every day, every time I meet him it’s, it’s interesting to me to see how his brain works

you say, in, in the purest sense, he’s a scientist

I think he’s a doctor 1st, but a doctor who’s very, very interested in science, and that’s an important thing, because a lot of, uh, doctors don’t care about the research, and he does
I think, I think his primary aim is to treat patients, mostly

So if there were any type of skeptic, research scientist out there, what would you say to them about what goes on here?

We do, we do, everything that happens in any other lab, anywhere else
I went to school at Houston, ah, so, I know exactly how the labs work
We do exactly what they do

Yeah

Um, we try to write up our papers, and send them to the journals, just like everybody else does
Uh, present at conferences
We try to get our data out there
Um, we’re trying to do our best, just the way everyone else is

I, I suppise trying to do your best it, it, it’s fascinating because you actually have something

Yeah

that really, really does work

Mhmm

I mean, it’s a cure, right ?

We believe it is

It’s a cure for cancer
Not for all cancers
I actually asked Dr. Burzynski

Mhmm

I filmed him the other day and said to him, why do you, specialize in brain tumors ?

Mhmm

Do you know what his answer was ?

What was it ?

He said it’s because it’s the most difficult type of cancer

Well it is if, if you think about it
I don’t think there are many doctors who claim to have survivors, eh, at least in the numbers that he has, to present

Yeah

and, um, I hear that at conferences too when we, were standing around, they will look at the slides, eh, eh, which is a tumor, and they will say: “Well that’s not a tumor,” ye, “it’s just necrosis
It’s just a patch on the skin, and you just cured nothing, and”, uh, all the, “the patient was probably cured from, the therapy that he took elsewhere, you know, the radiation he got 10 years ago”
“That’s probably what cured him,” but, you know, th, those kind of patients will be rejected from other, hospitals, don’t survive, that far enough to, to tell a story

So what is it ?
Just people living in denial ?
Is it fear ?
Is it ?

Fear or denial
I’m going to do what everybody else does
Why, why should I go out and do something different, here ?
Yeah (?)

And, and lastly, you know the, the power the pharmaceutical companies have

Well of course
I mean, but I’m nobody to, comment about that

Yeah, yeah

You know
There’s, there’s a lot going on behind the scenes that we are not even aware of, but this is just what, um, my experience is, when I talk to other doctors at meetings and conferences, and they, you’re immediately dismissed as, oh, you know: “What you’re going to say doesn’t really make any sense because you work for, Dr.

His name has been tarnished
——————————————————————
There’s a lot more, to that, than just, people playing politics, this, this, a whole lot of stuff going on behind there
So, I don’t think it’s, it’s (supression ?) as much, it’s just trying to tell your story, uh, so that somebody would listen and accept it, uh, maybe using, the right channels, going, presenting it in a different way, make it more convincing
All that, would help

So if it, if it was you, in his position, would you not have just given up ?
Or would you

Oh, definitely
We all talk about it all the time, that the amount of determination that he has, most people, would back off and leave, but like I said, he believes in what he does, and that’s what keeps him going

Yeah
As far as publishing is concerned, ’cause a lot of scientist want to see

We’ve tried
We, we, don’t get past the initial screening
We repeatedly send it back to other journals and that’s the process I keep doing all the time
Comes back, I send it back to another journal
Hopefully, one day it will get it

So, let, let, let, let me get this straight, ok ?
You write articles, right ?

Papers

Papers

Mhmm

and you submit them to, medical journals

Mhmm

and then what happens ?

They come back

Why do they come back ?

Sometimes, um, if they get to reviewers, uh, it’s not enough data, or, which I understand
We can work on changing, modifying papers, but, many times they come back, without any reason
They just get rejected, at the 1st, screen itself
So they come back without any reason

And why do you feel that is, in your own humble opinion ?

Wha ? (laughing) not humble opinion
It’s, it’s hard, um, publishing is a tricky game, you know ?
You have to publish once, to get your name in there, and then, they might publish you again, but, uh, with the negative publicity that we already had, and most of the community would look at the name and say: “Oh we, we just don’t want to, want to even read it”
So, it, it doesn’t even get past the 1st screen, because they don’t turn, flip the 1st page even

Ok, so, what you’re saying is that you see things that are published in these journals

Oh yes

And, you see ?

very similar stuff
We try to, we try to do research that is on par, uh, with what everybody else is doing, as far as the techniques, the ana, the data analysis
We, we try to do everything which is the standard for, uh, the research community, but, doesn’t get past

Um, how frustrating must that be for you ?

Mmm, it is (laughing), it is

So do you feel like you’re a party, or you’re trying to get into a party, and knocking on the door, and no one’s letting you in ?

I feel like that at the conferences too because, um, sometimes they come up to your, poster presentations, and, um, they’ll ridicule you right there, while you’re standing there by your presentation

Ok, just last thing, because one of the things I heard

Mhmm

recently, which were, that, uh, there’s some evidence that Dr. Burzynski has from, from the phase 2 clinical trials, showing people who have, uh, glioblastomas who’ve been alive for 10 years

Mhmm

and there’s something there that they want to try and get published

Mhmm

What you’re saying is, that might never get published ?

Well, Dr. Burzynski’s case is different
He has published some of his patient data
I’m talking about the research, uh, the pre-clinical research, the cell culture data, the molecular data
Um, we haven’t had success getting that out, but, he has, he also faces rejection a lot, but he doe, he has managed to get ta, a few publications in

So how does it work ?
If, if you submit something they can
What’s the process ?
They can submit it back ?

That’s not, there’s a review
There’s a whole review board
Um, you can select your reviewers
It goes through couple of cycles of review before it’s, agreed that they will publish it
So,

And in case they say no to publishing it

You can

do you, can you take it somewhere else ?

Yeah, you can take it somewhere else, but, um, but it’s, the peer-reviewed journals that are the ones that you want to get into, you can publish whatever you want, ah, that doesn’t count
That’s why when, somebody who’s of, uh, any significance in science would not even look at those articles if they’re not in a peer-review journal
So, they have to get into a decent place to make a mark

Do you think that will happen ?
What do you think has to happen in order for ?

It’ll happen, in, in time
They can’t keep refusing you
We, we try again and again
——————————————————————
But in time they just want to, not focus on it, and just have’m, bring in more numbers, and keep doing this, and in the meantime keep treating, some number of patients
On, on, top of everything, my personal belief is, uh, brain tumors are not, uh, a money-raising factor, because it’s a, it’s a minority cancer
If this were treating, uh, mainstream cancers as they’re called, as, uh, breast cancer, maybe they would look at it more seriously, but the numbers, with the brain tumors, which is a good thing
I mean it’s a deadly cancer
You don’t want more people to have it, but, that puts it in the category of, um, you know, not so feasible, as far as the money-making
And so, the priority; even though, it’s the most vicious, and it should be looked at more seriously, but, it’s not the one that brings the big bucks

So

So, put it aside

So why would the FDA, haven’t closed him down then ?

Because they, they, uh, believe the data that he’s sending them so far, and they don’t have a valid point to, just say no, it doesn’t work, and put it away
They see effect, and so they want, more numbers, more data

Is it, it the phase 2 trial is finished ?

Mhmm

but they’re still accepting people ?

Yeah

on more like a special ?

Special basis, and, um, sometimes compassionate grounds

(compassion exception)

Uh, exceptions

That’s normal ?

Yes
So

(Yes I guess it is a funding issue ?)

Right

(Like FDA, during the 2nd phase of clinical trials they found the data to be, real, real one, and they gave him the ok to go for 3rd phase of clinical trials, but just to go through this process you would probably need $100,000)

(?) and that’s stalling

(even more, millions dol, millions of dollars, to go through the 3rd phase of clinical trials, and)

(?)

(he’s a single doctor
It’s a 1st case)

Yeah

(probably in American history)

It is

(that single doctor is trying, to get a his job)

Self-funded

(approval
Self-funded
Whatever you’ve seen on that plant, everything came out of his practice
So he was the one who funded, literally the, the, research and development phase, but those installation, operation, all this big plant was built ?)

Yes, ’cause, uh,

(private)

one of the things I hear a lot, I’ve heard slot in the U.K. is that: “Why is he charging people for clinical trials ?

Well, uh, how else would you run this place ?

Exactly
How will you run this place, and how else will people be on the trial, because

Right

you know, there’s no pharmaceutical company involved here, right ?

There’s nothing
Nothing
It’s all out of his pocket
Every single bit
So
And what is stalling (?) is (?) again is, is funds
Money

Yeah, I also heard that the phase 3 they wanna do radiotherapy with, with it

Mmm

Hopefully, that will not be the case, but

we’re trying to
I think, uh, he is trying to fight against that, but, the FDA is the FDA, so

And what do you think about this case, he’s now got coming up in April ?
You know, he’s got this court case

Well there’s always something

Yeah (laughing)

He, he’s won before, so

Yeah

Do you think he needs the support, do you think he feels the support from, from all of you ?

I think so, for sure

(Oh, absolutely)

Yeah

Nobody forced us to work here

(Ah-hah)

Yeah

We get paid, but, you know
I could always look for another job if I needed to (laugh)

Yeah
So would you stay here because you really believe in what’s going on here ?

(?)

(Yes, that’s one thing that’s unique about our operation, and I’m talking about this location is, uh, whoever joined the company; and we have a guys who joined the company in the 80’s, 90’s
They stay with the company
Turnover is zero)

Yeah

(Joined the company
Stays with the company
It’s a challenge)

Yeah

(It’s a (?) challenge for us)
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