Pete Cohen talks to Steve and Mary Jo Siegel

This is our the best and the dearest, uh, patient who came to our clinic 20
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2
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2 years ago
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22 years ago
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and she was in the, she came with Hodgkin lymphoma, and a stage 4, and she didn’t have good, uh, prognosis
How long, did they tell you
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They told me that I was gonna die, of non-Hodgkins lymphoma
That I had a fatal disease
They would treat me for awhile with, uh, chemotherapy and radiation, um, a bone marrow transplant, and, um, we, they, we would see what would happen, but no cure
Not a cure at all
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So
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That was 22 years ago
Um, I thank God everyday that I found Dr. Burzynski’s clinic, and Dr. Burzynski and his staff
Um, I was on his treatment for, um, 3 months when this huge tumor on the side of my neck started to reduce and finally disappeared
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So we adopted her as our, uh, family
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(laughs)
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Yeah
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and now, she is our family member, and many others
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So tell me, uh, how did you find out about Dr. Burzynski?
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I was in a cancer support group, and, uh, one of the ladies in there said, you know, you have non-Hodgkins lymphoma
There’s a doctor in Houston whose been treating it with very good results
You should go and check it out
Which I went back home to my husband and said: “There’s Dr. Burzynski in Houston, Texas, and he’s having good results,” and, ah, Steve said: “You know, I’ve heard of this doctor
You know, I wrote his name down”
He’d heard about him
Wrote his name down for future use, and I think about, uh, the next couple of days we were in Houston, and we got to the clinic and I just felt I was in the right place
Everybody there
It was
The feeling was so different than being at a UCLA or a USC or Dana Farber
It was just
I knew immediately I was in the right place, and I met Dr. Burzynski
Well first of all Dr. Barbara came out and hugged me, and, uh, it was, it was so wonderful and I’ll never forget the feeling of, of, uh, my first walk into the Burzynski Clinic
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So tell me, what did, uh, any, did, did you have an oncologist at home and tell them that you were coming here ?
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Yeah, we did
Um, uh, I had an oncologist at UCLA who was a lymphoma specialist, and he was the one that told me I would die of the disease
Um, when we told him that we were going to see Dr. Burzynski, he wasn’t, uh, overjoyed, to say the least, and he told us very negative things and, uh, but I thought, he wasn’t offering me anything, and, uh, when I did get to the Burzynski Clinic, Dr. Burzynski said to me: “I think I can help you,” he said
He didn’t
He didn’t tell me, he was going to cure me
He didn’t
He just said: “I think I can help you,” and, it was non-toxic, and the, um, conventional medicine was offering me high-dose chemotherapy, radiation, and in fact, in mu, as much radiation as people who were, uh, within one mile of ground zero at Hiroshima, and, and they were going to bring me as close to death as possible, and then, rescue me
Uh, and then Dr. Burzynski was going to do this and actually have, where actually I would have hope of a cure, non-toxically
My hair never fell out
I felt well
Um, I lead my normal life
I drove my kids to school
I cleaned the house
Whatever
You know
It was
It’s a wonderful treatment
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So, at what point did you realize, I’m free of cancer ?
Do you remember that point of ?
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Uh, well I remember the point
I remember it very well
Um, the, it
It’s so big
Um, I had, uh, several CAT scans
I had 2 CAT scans in a row
The first one that showed no cancer at all, and, um, I had them done at UCLA, and, um, and then I had a second one, 3 months later, and that one was, was absolutely clear
So, um, it was, it was an amazing feeling, and actually 48 hours was following me, because it was, it was a really a big story, um, you know
Cancer throughout my body
No, no cancer at all and, and my medical records show, um, you look at my X-rays, my CAT scans, from starting Dr. Burzynski’s treatment, um, to approximately 9 months later
Reduction, reduction, reduction, until there was no cancer
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So what did, what did your oncologist say ?
Did you, did you go back to your oncologist and say: “You said I was gonna die”
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Uh, yes, we did that
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And what did he say ?
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And, and actually people would call him and a, people who were interested in Dr. Burzynski, and he would say: “Oh, she’s a spontaneous remission”
He would never accept the fact that I was treated, and cured by Dr. Burzynski, but my medical records prove it, and of, you know I, There are so many patients like me
I’m not the only one
So
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So ok, tell me
Let me ask you a couple more questions
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Mhmm
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What sort of a person do you think Dr. Burzynski is?
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Well aside from being the most wonderful, gentle, sensitive, caring doctor, and you don’t find many of those
I went to many doctors, while, while we were trying to find the answer
Many, and Dr. Burzynski is so above them
He, because he really makes you feel like a person, and that he cares, and, he’s also a genius
He, I know that he speaks about 8 languages
He’s an expert on the Bible
He, he just knows so much about everything
Um, I love to be in the room with him
He’s a very special man
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So, you recovered, and then, ’cause you, when did you set up the patient support group, and why did you do that ?
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Uh, actually my husband and I did that together, and it was during, um, the trials, uh, the Texas State Board started, in fact, I became a patient, and 2 months later, ah, he was brought to a hearing in front of the Texas State Medical Board, and so Steve and I, um, organized the patients to, um, be at that hearing to support Dr. B, ’cause he’d been going through this long before I became a patient, but, um, we wanted to show support, because I was already starting to fe, I was feeling better already
I was already seeing some reduction, and now my, the medicine was in jeopardy
I, It could be taken away from me at any time
So we decided to organize the patients and to show support, and all the patients wanted to help, a, uh, obviously
So, um, we’d go to every hearing, every, uh, the trial, we were there every day, um, and we would, patients would march in front of the court building, um,
It was, it was really a sight
An unbelievable sight
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And why do you think that he was treated the way that he was treated ?
Why do you think they wanted to take him down ?
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I think it’s because
There’s many reasons
I think the main reason is because what Dr. Burzynski does is making what all other conventional doctors are doing wrong, because chemotherapy is not the answer
Chemotherapy makes people sick, and, uh, most of the time it does not cure people
Um, all that poison and radiation
There’s gotta be a better way, and there is a better way
Dr. Burzynski has found it
I was sick
I had cancer 22 years ago
Um, my hair never fell out, and, uh, it was a treatment that I was grateful to be on every day
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So how many patients have you come in contact with that Dr. Burzynski
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Hundreds
Hundreds, and as you say by my patient group web-site
Um, I think I have about 90 stories on there now, and there are many more, because, um, I haven’t been able to get in touch with everybody, but over the years, uh, people give me their stories
Sometimes people will call me, um, but we, we are a patient group because we, we’ve all been helped or cured by Dr. Burzynski, and we, we want everybody to have access to this treatment

Steve actually had the chance to ask one of, uh, one of the prosecutors, um, at the trial, that exact question: “What would you do,” and he was prosecuting Dr. Burzynski, and he actually said: “I’d be first in line”
So, once you know the whole story, and you know the science, and you, especially if you do the research, um, you, you can come to the truth, and the truth is, Dr. Burzynski, has cured cancer
He cured me
I’ve been in remission for, in remission, for, uh, 22 years, and that’s a cure, and, uh, he could help so many, many, many more people
The, he has breast cancer patients now that are, that are doing so well
He has many
I just talked to an ovarian cancer patient
He has, um, all, all different types of cancers
What he needs is funding from our government
Um, all other doctors and, and, um, institutions, they get ah, mu, get so much money from the government
Dr. Burzynski doesn’t get one penny
If we could just think
If, d, if the government would just fund Dr. Burzynski, he could have a cure for all cancers
I believe that with all my heart, and somehow, some day this has to happen
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The Sceptics (10:37)
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Yeah, just tell me what this whole kind of skeptic movement
You do any research on Dr. Burzynski there’s a few things
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Yes
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that always come up
This guy Saul
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Saul Green
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Yeah
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Mmm
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and some other stuff
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Yeah
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So just tell me
What’s that all about and where did that all come from ?
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It stems from, uh, a lawsuit that was filed against, uh, Dr. Burzynski
Actually it was, uh, an insurance company, that didn’t wanna pay for, uh, for the treatment
A particular patient had been treated here in Texas, uh, was put into remission
Was successfully treated and then it turns out the insurance company did not wanna pay for it, so they brought in these people
These quote unquote experts
Cancer experts of, you know, rather dubious backgrounds
This is all that they do, is they look for ways to demean people
They look for ways to blacken their reputation
They ultimately became a group known as Quack watch, and these were brought in as the expert witnesses to say that this is not an approved treatment, albeit, was not true
They said the treatment didn’t work and clearly it did, and, uh, they have since gotten funding from insurance companies, from the government, private funding, and they go around to debunk things that are against mainstream, um, medicine, and, uh, their, their support comes from the insurance company and from the pharmaceutical companies who benefit from, from their work, and, uh, it expanded
Expanded all over the world to, uh, they’re in the United States, they’re in the U.K., they’re in Australia, and, uh, they have a very big presence
When the internet came into being they, you know, they went viral with this kind of stuff
So when you type in Burzynski, uh, a lot of the negative comes up first
So that’s the first thing you see is all this negative stuff, and it’s all hearsay
None of it has any basis in fact
It’s all lies
Um, you know, he, Dr. Burzynski never did anything illegal ever, and it was all based on, on very questionable legal grounds that he was ever sued, that he was, that any case was ever brought against him by the FDA or the Texas Medical Board, and all of those cases failed
They never held up to scrutiny
They all failed, and here Dr. Burzynski is today, and he’s thriving, and people come here from all over the world to be treated
Many are cured of their cancers, and, uh, all of these people in the Quack watch are gone
Uh, Saul Green has passed away
Uh, I don’t wish him ill, but I’m glad he’s not here, thank you, and all of these other people are gone and they’re not thriving, and they’re just like, you know, they’re like bacteria or like fungus under rocks, and when you shine a light on them, they can’t hold up to the scrutiny
The real light is here
The real truth is here in Houston at the Burzynski Clinic
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Thoughts on Dr. Burzynski (13:46)
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What do you think of Dr. Burzynski, yourself ?
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I, I, I think Mary Jo’s pretty much summed it up
Uh, I, am of course
It, it, it’s not an unbiased opinion
It can’t be
He’s the man that saved my wife
Uh, she was cast off, um, as, as, as an incurable
She was told time and time again, not just by her on, oncologist at UCLA, Dr. Peter Rosen, but we went all over the country
We went to USC in, University of Southern California, UCLA, Stanford Medical, Dana-Farber; which is associated with Harvard, uh, in, uh, Boston, and everywhere we went, she was told: “There’s no hope”
“You’re gonna die”
“It’s just a matter of time”
“We have to see how long, how long it’s gonna take”
Um, against my better wishes, we came to the Burzynski Clinic, and she said: “I’m starting today,” and I said: “Don’t you think we should go back and discuss with Dr. Rosen at UCLA ?
She said: “No, they have nothing to offer me”
She was that brave, and we started that day, and we’ve never looked, we’ve never looked back
So to ask me about what I think about Dr. Burzynski, when my wife was told she was gonna die, and I was already making plans for how am I going to take care of my children without Mary Jo; my life partner, and he saved her life, I’m not gonna give you unbiased
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Mhmm
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an unbiased opinion of how I feel about the man
There’s probably nobody, that I have greater love and greater respect for, uh, in, in the whole world, and, uh, to add about how, how smart, how intelligent this man is, ah, expert on, on history as Barbara was saying
Expert on religion
He’s an expert on mushrooms
He knows more about mushrooms than any 10 mushroom experts in the world
Bees
He knows about bees
Who cares about bees, but he knows everything, because bees happen to be a rich production source of antineoplastons
Who knew ?
Dr. Burzynski knew, and that’s why we need to listen to him
We as a society
The world needs to listen to this man
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Conventional Cancer Treatment and The FDA (16:05)
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When you put some critical thought, critical analysis, you find that chemotherapy initially works
What it is, it’s a good, the first time around it’s a good tumor shrinking, they’re good tumor shrinking agents, but over the long run they create so many problems that eventually, the tumor becomes, the cells become resistant and the tumor takes over, or, if it is successful in shrinking the tumor to, to a, a size where the patient can survive, what happens after that is there’s a secondary cancer that’s created by the chemotherapy, with very few exceptions
Testicular cancer is one exception where it works
Some childhood leukemia’s they’ve had some great success with chemotherapy, but by in large it’s a failed modality, and the side effects are so bad as, as to be called horrific, uh, is how I would describe them from what I’ve seen in, in my family and in my friends, and my associates that’ve had to undergo it
So why do we allow that, when something like antineoplastons and Burzynski’s treatment, totally non-toxic, working with the body, allowing you to lead a normal life, and on it statistically for the number of people that have been treated, uh, compared to the number of people that have walked out of here in remission, or cured after 5 years; whatever definition you wanna use, we don’t allow that
We look at that as, uh, conventional medicine looks at like that as, looks at that as some sort of quackery
This is, this is, uh, critical thinking and science turned on its head, and it doesn’t make sense, and it goes back to what I was saying before
Why it doesn’t make sense, because there’s entrenched financial interests, and there’s a paradigm that says we do for cancer, we do chemotherapy, we do radiation, we do surgery, and that’s it
Anything else is not acceptable, because it goes against the paradigm

In the bureaucracy we know as the FDA
We’ve been fighting them for so long and they’ve been described as “The B Team”
“The B Team” is,that they be here when you come in and you start complaining, your problem starts, they be here, and when you decide to quit complaining because you’ve beat your head against the wall for so many years, they still be here (laugh)
So it’s “The B Team”
They’re bureaucrats
This is what they do
There, they have a certain set of tasks
Certain things that they’re tasked with
Protection of the food and drug supply of the United States, whatever that means
Whatever they deem it to mean
Whatever they decide it means
That’s what they’re gonna do, and it’s pretty hard to fight that
It’s pretty hard, unless you have a political, unless you have a, a, a, a political, ah, constituency, and you can put a lot of pressure on them
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So
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and that’s the only way
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So what’s the answer ?
What will, uh
How will Dr. Burzynski prevail ?
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Ultimately, in, in my, in my, in my view, the real tragedy is, is that he’s not going to prevail here in the United States
It’s going to be extremely difficult
It’s an uphill battle that, knowing Dr. Burzynski, he’s gonna keep fighting it, uh, and, and he’ll keep fighting that battle, but the real opportunity for him is to, uh, move this product and license it overseas, and, uh, other countries are interested
Other countries are more open, uh, to new modalities
They’re not entrenched, uh, and don’t have the financial, uh, interests, the, that are, the entrenched financial interests like we do here, like chemotherapy and, and, uh, radiation therapy, and I think that’s where ultimately we as Americans, as sad as it is, are going to have to go overseas to be treated and to get this medication

The FDA is so capricious in their decision-making, and in their exception granting, uh, that if Pat had AIDS, and this was anti-AIDS medication; proven or not or only with limited, uh, proven efficaciousness, uh, and proven limited proof that it was somewhat non-toxic, she would be able to get approval like that
The FDA has taken a drug approval process that generally takes anywhere from 10 to 15 years, and where there is political, successful political pressure applied, they have reduced that down to some cases 4 to 8 months as in the case of the anti-HIV drugs, and that’s because there is a very strong, very powerful political lobby in Washington, and throughout the country, and they have been able to apply pressure at key points in, uh, Congress
Congress puts that pressure on the FDA, says: “C’mon let’s get the ball forward
These are voting people
We have millions of people in this country with HIV who are compacted together and make a viable political force
Let’s move forward”
In the case of multiple-myeloma
In the case of these cancers or these people that wanna be treated, who have failed all conventional therapy, and wanna be treated by Dr. Burzynski with something that we know works
Something that is, is non-toxic, they, they don’t have
We’re not a viable political force
We’re not important to the Washington bureaucrats, to the Washington lawmakers
So nothing gets done, and these exceptions for the use of antineoplastons are not granted, and that’s, that’s the sad truth
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Steve and Mary Jo Siegel
January 2012
22:01
11/9/2012
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Pete Cohen talks with Burzynski Patient

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2010 I was laying in on my couch; and I had been treated for cancer in the past, but evidentially reoccurrence, and I, I was so sick on my bed
Actually on the couch
I couldn’t get up
My neighbor called me, uh, and, uh, I couldn’t even, I had the phone next to me and I could answer it, but I think I was laying on the couch for about 2 days
Finally got a nurse over there to check my temperature, at 105.8
They rushed me to the hospital
Didn’t even give me but a few days to live (laugh), and, uh, they wanted to treat me and do so forth, but my, uh, sister-in-law had been reading a little about the Burzynski Clinic
She gave me some information on it
There was a few other places that I was looking at, but I was felt lead to come here, and, uh, actually the doctors wouldn’t even allow me out of the hospital to come here
They said I would never make it, and so, uh, my brother who insisted upon getting me out there
So I came out
Took a, a van
Took it
Came out here, and, uh, I couldn’t walk
Couldn’t hold a pencil in my hand
I could hardly sit up in a chair (laugh), much less anything else
And, uh, within, with just within a few weeks of, of some treatment I could actually get up and walk and so forth
Then as time went, I was able to walk a little more, and then I was able to drive, and now I’m being able to read and write and the whole thing, so, and as of today I just got my final report, and that final report, (?) the last report that I’ve actually, looked like there’s no active cancer at all
There’s some tumors left and some little shades here
Scar tissue
So, I’m continuing on, on the treatment, but so far, I thank God, and I’m still here, and, uh, gave me some extra time here
So I’m thankful
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Wow
So when were you first diagnosed with ?
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2003
I was diagnosed with, uh, lymphoma
Uh, we were going in for heart repla, my 6th hernia operation (laugh) and the found it in my abdomen, and so they immediately took me to the, get a port and get me on the chemo and so forth, and, uh, the 1st chemo treatment I, I almost didn’t, I almost didn’t survive
I was rushed to the hospital
They, they didn’t expect me to make it the night
However, I did make it, and a couple times there were a couple problems there
Then I went through radiation and some, uh, some other treatment for about 2 or 3 years here
Some remission, uh
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And what was your health like during that time ?
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Uh, it was, my immune system was quite down
I was catching colds
I was getting pneumonia and things
Uh, not pneumonia but almost on the edge of it but always weak, and, uh, coming here, you know, it, it’s a lot different
It, its reach a little more compassionately
There’s a little bit more, uh, with not as much side effects and hardly as much side effects as, as, as the other treatments
Still been able to drive, fly, and everything else and, and, uh, so, uh, with the, I, I just find with the multi-approach that they have here, uh, you know, all the different ways they attack it, not just one or two different ways that should become standard, that doctors actually looked outside the box, and discovered things that, uh, uh, are, are just fantastic, and that’s one of the things
I like to do a lot of research, and I just found, what I found here just clicked, and thank God I’m here today
So (laughing)
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Wow
So the 1st time you had, when you were diagnosed
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2000
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2000 you had chemotherapy
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Yes
Radiation treatment, and I had some Zebulon radiation treatment and so forth
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And then, how long were you kinda, well you can’t (?)
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Well (?), 2007 and then, uh, they wanted to do a bone marrow transplant, and they had to give me more dose of chemo which would have been stronger than the 1st, and I almost didn’t make it the 1st time
So I just
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You said “No”
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I said I just, I just won’t
I can’t do that
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And what did your oncologist say ?
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Uh, well, he didn’t have much of a choice
I didn’t really wanna take that route
He says “Well, there’s no other choice,” basically
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There’s nothing more we can do for you
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Well, no
That’s, that’s, that’s
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(?) go home and die
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Well, no
That was their
That was their next line of treatment, that, and that was it
Bone marrow transplants, so forth, uh, which, you know, that’s within their perimeter, but here he treats it a little but more outside, with the different, different methods that he has, with the DNA and the, and the, uh, uh, treating the vascular part of the cell, uh, and the tumor, to choke off the supply of the nutrients, and so forth
Uh, just the whole multi-faceted approach, which actually, uh, which, which I, when I read it I said “Wow, here’s one that’s really on top of this thing,” and, and I know there’s been some, uh, uh, uh, envy sometimes from the (laughing) medical field, and that’s just natural of anything
I mean, I’ve been in real estate for years, and worked, uh, different ways that, you know, when you come up with a different method, a lot of people don’t want to change so easy
So I’m pretty familiar with that
Uh, so I just, I just have found that, uh, uh, just the overall way I’ve been treated here
It’s just, it’s just really refreshing
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So you, you, you came down here when, which, in?
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November 2010
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You came down (?)
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From Miami
From actually Fort Lauderdale
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Right
And, um, how soon, you said it was in a couple of weeks you were
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Yeah, within, within a few weeks I was actually starting to feel a bit better
I was starting to walk a bit more
I couldn’t even walk 10 feet without, you know, being so exhausted
Then I’d walk up to 50 feet
Then I’d walk up to 100 feet
Then I’d, by the time Christmas came around I flew back to Orlando to visit my sister and, uh, I was actually able to walk about 5 or 6 blocks to go to the grocery store and back
Got, got lost somewhere
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What was that like ?
You know, the realization that you were alive and you were well again ?
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Well, you know, uh, uh, again, uh, I was at the point before, and I have my, I have peace with my maker so I don’t know, one way, way I’d have gone if have been happy (?) but I,
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You were prepared to go
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but I’m prepared to go, but I have a young daughter and, uh, and a lot of family still here
So I didn’t wanna, I didn’t wanna go just yet (laughing)
So I’m thankful, with the treatment and by the grace of God I’m still here, and so, I look at, uh, uh, uh, you know, where I was at
Uh, I just, uh, realized the direction I was given to come out here, uh, and, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, took advantage of it, and you see what, what took place
So I’m thankful
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And, and what, what treatment were you on when you 1st came here ?
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I wasn’t really on any treatment at the time
I, I, I, I wasn’t going to go back and do the bone marrow although it’s still an option and some people might wanna use it
I just wanted to do it different, way
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And what treatment did they put on, on, put you on when you came here ?
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Uh, well they gave me, I did take some infusions to get my health back into shape
I was, uh, uh, a little malnourished here and there, uh, they uh, uh, uh
I’m not really coherent really what was going on back then
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Yeah, right
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My brother, and sister-in-law, and my sister were all here with me
They were kinda keeping on top of things
I was kinda trying to just keep breathing
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Yeah
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(laughing)
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So, uh, and what about
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I vaguely remember some of the things I went through
I couldn’t even get out of bed in some instances, and my folks had to help me here and there
So
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What about now ?
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Uh, in, in regarding ?
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Your health now
What, what
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Well, uh, I, I, I feel, uh, I feel good
I mean, there, there’s still, uh
I mean I
I’m, uh
I used to play football years ago
I still have a lot of injuries from that and I’m still (laughing)
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Yeah
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I’m walking around with, but other than that I feel pretty good
I mean I, you know, I’m very thankful, I’m
I’ve been able to go out and do a number of things I hadn’t been able to do before
I spend time with my daughter as much as I can, and I’m very grateful for that
It makes a big difference
Uh
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Yeah, I bet
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Um, I just, uh, uh, I’m grateful for, for, you know, the way the doctors treat and the staff here
Uh, the I.V. nurses have just, I mean, uh, have just been phenomenal for me and I’m just, I’m very grateful for what they’ve done here
The staff
The welcoming committee
Everybody else
They keep on top of what’s going on
They know where you’re at
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So why do you think more people aren’t treated the way you’re treated as far as cancer’s concerned ?
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Well I, well I think there’s, uh, you know, uh
Anytime there’s anything new, there’s always a hesitation, uh, which in a way is reasonable, but when you begin to see it documented and coming forth to be true, then you pretty much know it’s more established, and so you, uh, are more willing to go in that direction and, uh, I, uh, what I went through before I didn’t really want to go through again, uh, with the chemo and the radiation and so forth
Uh, I just, uh, uh, you know, I almost didn’t last through it
So I, I was just looking for something different and this, this is where I came
So I’m, I’m thankful for it, uh, and I’ve mentioned it to a number of people, that have asked me, uh, over the course of the year, and I’ve, been able to talk to a number of people that have been here
I mean, I’ve met people from, uh, South Africa, Turkey, uh, Japan, ah, Australia
They’d all come over here for treatment
So, I mean, I’ve kept in contact with a number of them
So it’s really a joy to meet some of the other people treated successfully here
So, uh, yeah, uh, uh, I just,
Maybe, uh, you know, with the, with the set way that the medical field is, resistant in change, plus there’s a big, you know there’s, uh, big monetary issue about, you know, something comes in, it’s a little bit more efficient
You know, I don’t want to get into a lot of the motives, but I’m just grateful for what
——————————————————————
Mmm
——————————————————————
uh, they’ve done here for me, so, and it’s been successful so far, so I’m thankful

I know how the resistance is, when there’s something new that comes along, and what happens, uh, there may be a monetary motive to prevent, uh, you know, the, the, I hate to say that but we’re human, and so, you know, if, if, if, somebody comes up with something that’s a better way to treat, there’s all kinds of things that the person goes through their mind and their heart to what they’re thinking about, uh, you know, it’s kind of a threatening thing to the industry because they, they’re going to lose out on it
——————————————————————
Yeah
——————————————————————
if they’re not on top of that
So, it becomes a threat in a sense, and it shouldn’t be, but that’s human nature
A lot of times human nature comes out that way and you see it in anything
You see it in the medical field
You see it in, in the real estate field
You see it in the legal field
You see it in all kinds of things to where it can get into a self-fulfilling type of thing, when something comes along, that’s very profitable
It’s not necessarily always going to get in the forefront because it’s, there’s a lot of, uh, blocks and blockades in the way to prevent that from happening
Some, some of it good and some of it bad, and that’s just because of human motives, uh, of competition, so forth
So
======================================
Burzynski Patient Interview #1
January 2011
11:57
11/9/2012
——————————————————————

======================================

Critiquing: Families run out of hope, money after cancer treatments (USA TODAY NEWS, NATION, Liz Szabo, USA TODAY)

USA TODAY
Liz Szabo
Michael Stravato
Jerry Mosemak
Robert Hanashiro

Before you write a Hack Piece
Check Your Facts Please

——————————————————————

20131118-084404.jpg
——————————————————————
The 3rd, and thankfully final segment of USA TODAY’s “hit-piece” of irresponsible yellow journalism about Dr. Stanislaw R. Burzynski [1], contains the following:
——————————————————————
“Patients stay in hotels while visiting him”
——————————————————————
Pete Cohen made this movie about his and
Hannah Bradley’s trip to the Burzynski Clinic

It does NOT look like they stayed in a hotel [2]
——————————————————————
The article continues:
——————————————————————
“If children deteriorate, they often end up in the closest emergency room, said physician Jeanine Graf, director of the pediatric intensive care unit at Texas Children’s Hospital in Houston, who says she has treated at least a dozen of Burzynski’s patients
——————————————————————
In the 2nd segment of USA TODAY’s yellow journalism “hit-piece,” the reader was advised that Burzynski had treated [3]:
——————————————————————
“ . . . more than 8,000 patients since 1977.”
——————————————————————
Physician Jeanine Graf, “says she has treated at least a dozen of Burzynski’smore than 8,000 patients,”

This means that Dr. Graf has treated LESS THAN 0.15% of Burzynski’s patients
——————————————————————
The article indicates that:
——————————————————————
“Typically, Graf sees Burzynski’s patients after they have become unresponsive, unable to open their eyes or breathe on their own”

“Graf says she’s never seen Burzynski attending to them”
——————————————————————
Why would she ?

Does she ride in the ambulance to and from the clinic ?

As the article makes clear:

“While Burzynski often meets patients on their first trip to the clinic, Jaffe said he is

“not the treating physician of the clinic’s patients”

“The doctors on Burzynski’s staff have admitting privileges at local hospitals and “attend to patients as needed,” Jaffe said”
——————————————————————
And she continues:
——————————————————————
“And describing her personal experience with Burzynski’s patients, Graf says,”

“I’ve never seen one survive long-term.”
——————————————————————
Are we supposed to believe that pediatric physician Jeanine Graf keeps track of the “more than 8,000 patients” that the article claims Burzynski has treated ?
——————————————————————
Continuing on, the article also claims:
——————————————————————
“The unlucky ones end up broke, spending everything on medicine, airfare, hotel rooms and meals while in Houston, Graf says

“Burzynski’s attorney, Richard Jaffe, notes that all cancer care is expensive”

“I think the clinic’s policies are a lot more charitable than the big institutions,” Jaffe says”
——————————————————————
6/25/2013 – Medical Bills Are the Biggest Cause of US Bankruptcies [4]

“Bankruptcies resulting from unpaid medical bills will affect nearly 2 million people this year—making health care the No. 1 cause of such filings . . . according to new data”

“. . . estimates that households containing 1.7 million people will file for bankruptcy protection this year

“Even outside of bankruptcy, about 56 million adultsmore than 20 percent of the population between the ages of 19 and 64—will still struggle with health-care-related bills this year . . .”

“Despite the anticipated 2013 dip, such bankruptcies represent about three out of every five filings
——————————————————————
2007 – How Many Americans Go Bankrupt Due to Medical Purposes Each Year? [5]

“2007, a Harvard study shows that at least 60% of bankruptcies are related to medical bills

“Even people with health insurance are filing bankruptcy”

“Insurance premiums, deductibles, co-pay, and out of pocket expenses cause medical bills to drown individuals and families in medical debt”

“Harvard also discovered that 75% of those filing bankruptcy for medical reasons had health insurance

“It is clear that having health insurance is no guarantee against carrying debt related to health care”
——————————————————————
Burzynski has treated more than 8,000 patients since 1977

8,000 divided by 36 years equals an average of:

222 patients per year

Burzynski is obviously NOT the problem
——————————————————————
Liz Szabo, Michael Stravato, Jerry Mosemak, and Robert Hanashiro

Don’t quit your day jobs

USA TODAY needs to generate readership somehow !!!
——————————————————————
Sarcasm . . . deal with it
======================================
REFERENCES:
======================================
[1] – 11/15/2013
——————————————————————
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/15/jeanine-graf-cancer-children/2994675/
======================================
[2]Hannah’s Anectdote:
——————————————————————

======================================
[3] – 11/16/2013 – Critiquing: Doctor accused of selling false hope to families (USA TODAY NEWS, NATION, Liz Szabo, USA TODAY):
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/11/16/httpwww-usatoday-comstorynewsnation20131115stanislaw-burzynski-cancer-controversy2994561/
======================================
[4] – 06/25/13 2:29 PM ET—By CNBC’s Dan Mangan @danpostman
——————————————————————
http://www.cnbc.com/id/100840148
======================================
[5] – 2007 – Written by James Hirby | Fact checked by The Law Dictionary staff
——————————————————————
http://thelawdictionary.org/article/how-many-americans-go-bankrupt-due-to-medical-purposes-each-year/
======================================

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Critiquing: Doctor accused of selling false hope to families (USA TODAY NEWS, NATION, Liz Szabo, USA TODAY)

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I gave Liz Szabo and USA TODAY the chance to act like a Spike Lee joint and “Do the Right Thing”, the same day their article came out [1]

I gave them the opportunity to prove that their article was a legitimate piece of journalism with some semblance of integrity, and NOT just akin to one of “The Skeptics™ phoned-in “rubber-stamped” yellow journalism hit pieces

Instead, it seems that Liz Szabo and / or USA TODAY decided to act as if they had rolled a Spike Lee joint

I sent an e-mail with 2 editorial corrections, and only one (correcting Lisa Merritt’s comment
link from taking the reader to the 1999 Mayo Clinic report instead of to her comments), was corrected [2]

The 2nd correction which they #FAILED to do, earns them well deserved INSOLENCE
——————————————————————
The article claims:
——————————————————————
Burzynski, 70, calls his drugs “antineoplastons” and says he has given them to more than 8,000 patients since 1977.”
——————————————————————

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——————————————————————
However, if you select the “8,000 patients” link, the referenced page does NOT indicate that at all [2]
——————————————————————

20131116-064344.jpg
——————————————————————
It advises:
——————————————————————
“That same year, Dr. Burzynski founded his clinic in Houston where he’s since treated over 8,000 patients.” [3]
——————————————————————

20131116-064326.jpg
——————————————————————
Nowhere does it indicate that he “treated 8,000 patients” with antineoplastons
——————————————————————

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——————————————————————
The question that Liz Szabo and USA TODAY should answer, is:

1. Who is your “fact-checker”, and
2. are they smarter than a 5th grader ?
——————————————————————
In fact, Burzynski’s 2002 Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) filing advises:

” … in 1997, his medical practice was expanded to include traditional cancer treatment options such as chemotherapy, gene targeted therapy, immunotherapy and hormonal therapy in response to FDA requirements that cancer patients utilize more traditional cancer treatment options in order to be eligible to participate in the Company’s Antineoplaston clinical trials” [4]
——————————————————————
The article continues:
——————————————————————
“Individual success stories can be misleading, said Arthur Caplan, a professor and head of the division of bioethics at NYU Langone Medical Center”
——————————————————————
The question Arthur Caplan should be asking is:

Why has the United States Food and Drug Administration required Burzynski’s clinical trial patients to fail conventional therapies; such as surgery, chemotherapy, and radiation, BEFORE they are allowed to be treated with antineoplaston therapy ?

If the F.D.A. did NOT impose these restrictions upon Burzynski’s clinical trials, then the question Arthur Caplan raises would be moot
——————————————————————
The article quotes Dr. Jan Buckner as saying:
——————————————————————
“When I hear a story that is way out of the norm, the first question I ask is,

‘OK, is the diagnosis even correct?‘ ”

Buckner said”

“If the diagnosis wasn’t right to start with, it doesn’t matter what the treatment was.”

“Brain tumors are notoriously difficult to diagnose, Buckner says”

“When dealing with rare brain cancer, doctors may disagree about how to interpret imaging results up to 40% of the time”
——————————————————————
I wonder if Dr. Jan Buckner would agree with David Gorski; who is a BREAST cancer oncology specialist, and NOT a BRAIN cancer oncology specialist, who has the presumptiveness to speculate that 3 different medical opinions could have misdiagnosed Tori Moreno in August 1998; who was diagnosed with a very large tumor, about 3 inches in the largest diameter and located in the brain stem, which was too risky for surgery, and about which her parents were told by ALL 3, that Tori’s brain cancer was fatal and, she would die in a few days or at the most, 2-6 weeks, and that there was nothing that could be done, and was finally put on Burzynski’s antineoplaston therapy in October, when she was about 3 ½ months old, and in such condition that they were afraid that she might die at any time, David H. Gorski, M.D., Ph.D., FACS; who claims, “I do know cancer science” , has the audacity, because of his “book learnin'” has the temerity to postulate his “science-based medicine theory” that Miller’s Children at Long Beach Memorial misdiagnosed Tori Moreno’s inoperable stage 4 BSG

David Gorski has the gall to profer that City of Hope misdiagnosed Tori Moreno’s inoperable stage 4 brain stem glioma

David Gorski has the chutzpah to pontificate that Dr. Fred Epstein in New York misdiagnosed Tori Moreno’s inoperable stage IV brainstem glioma [5]
——————————————————————
The article then quotes Peter Adamson, chair of the Children’s Oncology Group:
——————————————————————
“But these therapies may have delayed benefits, taking weeks or months to shrink a tumor

“So patients treated by Burzynski may credit him for their progress, just because he was the last doctor to treat them, says Peter Adamson, chair of the Children’s Oncology Group, an NCI-supported research network that conducts clinical trials in pediatric cancer

Conventional cancer treatment can also cause tumors to swell temporarily, due to inflammation

“A patient who isn’t familiar with this phenomenon may assume her tumor is growing

“When that swelling subsides, patients may assume it’s because of Burzynski, Adamson says”
——————————————————————
This is laughable

In support of this “phenomenon” , the article provides a link to a Canadian web-site [6]

The site posits:
——————————————————————
“RT/TMZ is now widely practiced and the standard of care for appropriately selected patients, we are learning more about the consequences of RT/TMZ”

“One phenomena, termed Pseudo-Progression (psPD)…”
——————————————————————
The problem is that this only applies to “Glioblastoma Multiforme (GBM)”, and the article provides NO proof whatsoever, that any of Burzynski’s “Glioblastoma Multiforme (GBM)” patients have taken “RT/TMZ”
——————————————————————
Additionally, the site cites the reference as:

Sanghera, Perry, Sahgal, et al., “Sunnybrook Health Sciences Odette Cancer Centre” (in press, Canadian Journal of Neuroscience)

(“In press” refers to journal articles which have been accepted for publication, but have not yet been published)

However, the journal article in question was published 1/2010, so it has NOT been “in press” for over 3 years and 7 months [7]

Get your act together, aye, Canada !
——————————————————————
The article rants and raves on and on about FDA inspection reports from as far back as 1998, but at least they did quote Richard A. Jaffe:

“In Burzynski’s defense, Jaffe notes that inspection reports represent preliminary findings

“The FDA has not yet issued final conclusions”
——————————————————————
The article posts this ridiculous claim:
——————————————————————
“Yet the National Cancer Institute says there is no evidence that Burzynski has cured a single patient, or even helped one live longer
——————————————————————
That’s NOT what this seems to suggest [8]
——————————————————————
Then the article quotes pediatric oncologist Peter Adamson, a professor of pediatrics and pharmacology at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, in what will no doubt soon be known as a “classic”:
——————————————————————
“He’s a snake oil salesman,” says pediatric oncologist Peter Adamson, a professor of pediatrics and pharmacology at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia”
——————————————————————
All I’d like to know is, which rock did this clown crawl out from under ?

Dr. Adamson, please advise which “snake oil” has been granted Orphan Drug Designation (“ODD”) from the United States Food and Drug Administration [9], and which “snake oil” has been approved for, and used in, phase III clinical trials ? [10]
——————————————————————
Q: Is it, it the phase 2 trial is finished ?

A: “Mhmm”

Q: but they’re still accepting people ?

A: “Yeah”

Q: on more like a special ?

A: Special basis, and, um, sometimes compassionate grounds

A: “(compassion exception)”

A: “Uh, exceptions

Q: That’s normal ?

A: “Yes”
“So”

A: “(Yes I guess it is a funding issue ?)”

Q: Right

A: “(Like FDA, during the 2nd phase of clinical trials they found the data to be, real, real one, and they gave him the ok to go for 3rd phase of clinical trials, but just to go through this process you would probably need $100,000)”
——————————————————————

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20131021-200553.jpg
——————————————————————
Oh, wait !!

Dr. Adamson, when you say “snake oil”, I take it you are referring to the low-dose chemotherapy that Burzynski uses ?

Dr. Adamson, do you know what a “hack” is ?
——————————————————————
In regards to the Merritt’s, the article has:
——————————————————————
“The couple say that Burzynski misled them about the type of treatment that would be offered, as well as the cost”

My questions about the Merritt’s are:

1. Where is their complaint to the Texas Medical Board ?

2. Where is their lawsuit ? Couldn’t they find an attorney to take their case pro bono ?
——————————————————————
The article continues:
——————————————————————
“Yet even Jaffe has acknowledged that the trialnow in its 17th year — was more about politics than science”

“In his 2008 memoirs, Galileo’s Lawyer, Jaffe called it “a joke.”

“”It was all an artifice, a vehicle we and the FDA created to legally give the patients Burzynski’s treatment,” Jaffe said
——————————————————————
What Liz Szabo and her friends at USA TODAY fail to let the readers know, is that this only applied to one trial:
——————————————————————
Burzynski’s lawyer is obviously referring to the CAN-1 clinical trial mentioned in Burzynski’s 11/25/1997 Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) filing [11]
——————————————————————
One trial that is retrospective is CAN-1 Clinical Trial
——————————————————————
CAN-1 PHASE II STUDY OF ANTINEOPLASTONS A10 AND AS2-1 IN

PATIENTS WITH REFRACTORY MALIGNANCIES

133 patients
——————————————————————
Clinical trial of patients treated by Dr. Burzynski through 2/23/1996
——————————————————————
FDA has indicated it will not accept data generated by this trial since it was not a wholly prospective one
——————————————————————
The article continues in the same vein:
——————————————————————
“In an interview, Burzynski said developing new drugs is complex and takes time

“Yet the FDA has approved 108 cancer drugs since Burzynski began his trial”
——————————————————————
Ms. Szabo and “pals” conveniently “forgets” to educate their audience that Burzynski was using Fleming’s One-sample multiple testing procedure for phase II clinical trials [13], which requires that if the 1st 20 patients meet certain criteria, 20 additional patients are added [14]
——————————————————————
“Well, we cannot publish until the time is right” (laughs)

Yeah

“If you would like to publish the results of, of a
10 year survival, for instance”

Mmm

“Which we have
Nobody has over 10 year survival in
malignant brain tumor, but we do, and if you like to do it right, it takes time to prepare it, and that’s what we do now
What we publish so far
We publish numerous, uh, publications which were, interim reports when we are still continuing clinical trials
Now we are preparing, a number of publications for final reports
[15]
——————————————————————
Then Fran Visco, president of the National Breast Cancer Coalition makes an outlandish statement, which is quoted in the article:
——————————————————————
“Fran Visco, president of the National Breast Cancer Coalition, describes the FDA’s tolerance of Burzynski as “outrageous.”

“They have put people at risk for a long time,” says Visco, an attorney and breast cancer survivor

“That’s completely unacceptable”

“How can anyone look at these facts and believe that there is a real clinical trial going on … rather than just using the FDA and the clinical trial system to make money?”
——————————————————————
I have a suggestion for Ms. Visco

Take your hypocrisy and ask the American Cancer Society if they are still engaged in this kind of activity:

1. AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY: More Interested In Accumulating Wealth Than Saving Lives [15]

2. National Cancer Institute and American Cancer Society: Criminal Indifference to Cancer Prevention and Conflicts of Interest [16]
——————————————————————
Then, ask the American Cancer Society, why is it that 10 years ago, estimated breast cancer deaths were expected to be 39,800 (15%), and this year it was 39,620 (14%), which is ONLY 180 LESS than 10 years ago ?
——————————————————————
Estimated Breast Cancer Deaths (Women)-USA
——————————————————————
2013☝39,620 (14%)
2012👇39,510 (14%)
2011👇39,520 (15%)
2010👇39,840 (15%)
2009👇40,170 (15%)
2008☝40,480 (15%)
2007👇40,460 (15%)
2006☝40,970 (15%)
2005👇40,410 (15%)
2004☝40,110 (15%)
2003☝39,800 (15%)
2002
39,600 (15%)
—————————————————————–
American Cancer Society Cancer Facts & Figures (2002-2013)
—————————————————————–
And then ask the American Cancer Society, why is it that 10 years ago, the estimated NEW breast cancer cases were expected to be 211,300 (32%), and this year it was 232,340 (29%), which is 21,340 MORE than it was 10 years ago ?
——————————————————————
Estimated New Breast Cancer (Women) – USA
——————————————————————
2013☝232,340 (29%)
2012👇226,870 (29%)
2011☝238,480 (30%)
2010☝207,090 (28%)
2009☝192,370 (27%)
2008☝182,460 (26%)

2007👇178,480 (26%)
2006☝212,920 (31%)
2005👇211,240 (32%)
2004☝215,900 (32%)
2003☝211,300 (32%)
2002
_-_203,500 (31%)
—————————————————————–
American Cancer Society Cancer Facts & Figures (2002-2013)
——————————————————————
And after that, ask Susan G. Komen how much is spent on legal action to protect her brand, compared to how much is spent on breast cancer research and prevention ?
——————————————————————
Visco, the breast cancer advocate

“I do NOT know why it took YOU so long.”
——————————————————————
The article continues with:
——————————————————————
“Yet hypernatremia is one of antineoplastons’ most common side effects, known to doctors for two decades”
——————————————————————
Yet, “The Skeptics™” refuse to discuss:
——————————————————————
2/13/2013 – The frequency, cost, and clinical outcomes of hypernatremia in patients hospitalized to a comprehensive cancer center

Over 3 month period in 2006 re 3,446 patients, most of the hypernatremia (90 %) was acquired during hospital stay [19]

Division of Internal Medicine, UT MD Anderson Cancer Center, Houston, TX, USA

Department of General Internal Medicine, University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center

Division of Endocrinology, Mayo Clinic
——————————————————————
9/1999 – The changing pattern of hypernatremia in hospitalized children [20]

Department of Pediatrics, Texas Children’s Hospital, Baylor College of Medicine, Houston, Texas, USA
——————————————————————
So, after all that, my question for USA TODAY is, does Liz Szabo, Michael Stravato, Jerry Mosemak or Robert Hanashiro have a
journalism degree ?

Because if any of them do, the institution they obtained it from most be so proud of this piece of “fish wrap” you produced

Thank you, USA TODAY, for censoring my 18 comments

I guess you must be (“intellectual”) cowards

At least Forbes had the GRAPEFRUITS to post some of my comments
——————————————————————
You’ve just been served, INSOLENTLY
——————————————————————
USA TODAY, GONE TOMORROW
——————————————————————

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======================================
REFERENCES:
======================================
[1] – 11/15/2013 – USA TODAY NEWS, NATION
Doctor accused of selling false hope to families
Liz Szabo, USA TODAY
——————————————————————
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/11/15/stanislaw-burzynski-cancer-controversy/2994561/
======================================
[2] – Mayo Clinic – 1999 – report: Lisa Merritt
——————————————————————
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/816819-mayo-clinic-1999-report.html
======================================
[3] – 2012 – former Burzynski web-site screenshots, Pg 3 of 62;
——————————————————————
http://www.circare.org/info/bri/burzynski_fdauntitled_promo_2012.pdf
======================================
[4] – 4/26/2013 – Burzynski: FDA requirements that cancer patients utilize more traditional cancer treatment options in order to be eligible to participate in the Company’s Antineoplaston CLINICAL TRIALS:
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/04/26/burzynski-fda-requirements-that-cancer-patients-utilize-more-traditional-cancer-treatment-options-in-order-to-be-eligible-to-participate-in-the-companys-antineoplaston-clinical-trials/
======================================
[5] – 11/14/2013 – Critiquing: Why we fight for patients (Why we fight your patience) TAM 2013, TAM2013, “The Amazing Meeting” 2013 #TAM2013 http://www.theamazingmeeting.com
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/11/14/tam-2013-tam2013-tam2013-the-amazing-meeting-2013-the-amazing-meeting-httptheamazingmeeting-com-httpwww-theamazingmeeting-com/
======================================
[6] – Phenomenon – Brain Tumour Foundation of Canada
——————————————————————
http://www.braintumour.ca/1649/ask-the-expert-psuedo-progression-gbm
======================================
[7] – Pseudoprogression following chemoradiotherapy for glioblastoma multiforme
Can J Neurol Sci. 2010 Jan;37(1):36-42
——————————————————————
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20169771/
======================================
[8] – 9/19/2013 – Critiquing: National Cancer Institute (NCI) at the National Institutes of Health (NIH) CancerNet “fact sheet” :
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/09/19/critiquing-national-cancer-institute-nci-at-the-national-institutes-of-health-nih-cancernet/
======================================
[9] – FDA Orphan Drug Designation
——————————————————————
http://www.burzynskiresearch.com/assets/PressRelease_12022008_BZYR(2).pdf
======================================
[10] – 11/7/2013Pete Cohen chats with Sonali Patil, Ph.D., Research Scientist at The Burzynski Clinic:
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/11/07/pete-cohen-chats-with-sonali-patil-ph-d-research-scientist-at-the-burzynski-clinic/
======================================
[11] – 7/9/2013 – Burzynski: The Original 72 Phase II Clinical Trials:
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/07/09/burzynski-the-original-72-phase-ii-clinical-trials/
======================================
[12] – 8/21/2013 – Critiquing David H. Gorski, MD, PhD, FACS http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/editorial-staff/david-h-gorski-md-phd-managing-editor/
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/08/21/critiquing-david-h-gorski-md-phd-facs-www-sciencebasedmedicine-orgeditorial-staffdavid-h-gorski-md-phd-managing-editor/
======================================
[13] – 2003 – pg. 94
——————————————————————
http://www.burzynskiclinic.com/images/stories/Publications/960.pdf
======================================
[14] – 3/1982 – Biometrics 1982; 38: 143-51
——————————————————————
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7082756/
======================================
[15] – 11/9/2013Pete Cohen chats with Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski – Interview #2:
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/11/09/pete-cohen-chats-with-dr-stanislaw-burzynski-interwiew-2/
======================================
[16] – AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY: More Interested In Accumulating Wealth Than Saving Lives
——————————————————————
http://www.wnho.net/acs.pdf
======================================
[17] – 9/11/2013 – National Cancer Institute and American Cancer Society: Criminal Indifference to Cancer Prevention and Conflicts of Interest:
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/09/11/national-cancer-institute-and-american-cancer-society-criminal-indifference-to-cancer-prevention-and-conflicts-of-interest/
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[18] – 11/13/2013 – The War on Cancer (I don’t think it means, what you think it says it means) #Winning?
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/11/13/httpcancer-orgacsgroupscontentepidemiologysurveilancedocumentsdocumentacspc-036845-pdf/
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[19] – 4/24/2013 – Burzynski: HYPERNATREMIA:
——————————————————————
https://stanislawrajmundburzynski.wordpress.com/2013/04/24/burzynski-hypernatremia/
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[20] – 9/1999 – Pediatrics. 1999 Sep;104(3 Pt 1):435-9
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10469766/
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20131116-002912.jpg

Pete Cohen chats with Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski

======================================
Pete talks with Dr. Stanislaw Burzynski
——————————————————————
December 2011 (1:02:30)
======================================
How did you kind of get into this, into this field in the 1st place ?

Uh well, it was a coincidence, ’cause obviously I made discovery of new chemicals, peptides which is in blood, and I noticed that they were deficient in patients with cancer, and there was a curiosity, why there was such deficiency, and I was interested what these peptides that I discovered, are doing in the body
So the connection with cancer was quite obvious
He, healthy people have abundance of these chemicals in blood
Cancer patients have varied to none
So could be that cancer is another deficiency disease
So

So when you found this out

Yes. Mhmm ?

how did you feel ?
I mean, did you not just want to shout from the rooftops, and could you believe that you’d actually discovered something ?

Not yet
Of course I was skeptical, and I found something that was interesting, but obviously, it was just the very beginning and when I shared this news uh with some other guys, who are obviously much older than me, who, other guys who were professors, who ever, so (laugh) they began to laugh so much they almost died from laughing
Ok ?
That (laughing)
Wow, this guy would like to kill cancer
Forget it
Ok ?

That’s just not going to happen

What are you doing ?
Yes sir (laugh)

Well how did that affect you ?

Well it didn’t affect me too much because I knew that uh the science uh requires uh some successes and uh setbacks and I felt, well I still would like to know, what these peptides can do, and I would like to know what they can do, not only regarding cancer but in various aspects of body function
For instance, the activity of the heart, the activity of the uh uh G.I. tract
Whatever
Ok
I needed to expand this knowledge
Suddenly I found some like 119 new peptide fractions
Nobody ever heard of them
So I wanted to know
What do they do ?
And when I was in Poland I couldn’t have really do any further testing, because I didn’t have such possibility to require different group of people who would do the testing, and simply by working in the biochemistry laboratory I did not have such capacity, and obviously the budget for doing uh research was extremely small
Besides, I was continuously harassed by the communists and they were sending me to, eh, the military, so I couldn’t do much
I still did whatever I could
Then I came to U.S.

Oh so you came to U.S.
What, what year was that ?

It was 1970

I heard you came with not very much money in your pocket

Uh well it was better than where I came first to the U.K., because when I came first to U.K., I came practically with nothing, and uh, when I went to British uh Medical Student Association, they were going to give me 7 pounds for one month stay in U.K. (laughing)
You were supposed to get this money in Poland

Yeah

(laughing) Sorry about that
So ultimately they decided to give me 7 pounds, and obviously at that time it was a lot of money, so with 7 pounds I was able to survive a month
(laughing) Good luck (laughing)
But in U.S., I was allowed by the communist government to $15, which again, was equivalent probably to 7 pounds, whatever (laughing)

So you came here with $15

I smuggled another 10

Yeah

So the proper balance was like

So what
So what did you do when you got here ?

Well, ehhh, when I arrived I was uh, uh, uh, trying to get ahold of my relatives
My uncle that lived in Bronx

Yeah

And uh I officially came to visit him and uh I was expecting him to see me at the airport, and surely enough he came to the airport but uh at the time he was an elderly man
He was close to 80, and eh, he probably went to a different part of Kennedy airport, so he couldn’t find me
So I was stuck in the airport
This was Holiday
This was 4th of uh September, which was a Labor Day, and so I couldn’t get uh uh to his apartment
So finally I spent most of this money for the cab, the taxi rides to his apartment
Some, like $13 worth

You had $2 left

Ye, Yeah

Plus the $10

Sure
Well, so then I stay uh I, I was obviously in the family’s, I couldn’t

Yeah

I, I don’t need to worry about it
So obviously I had a food and lodging, and uh, still I was trying to get hold of some of the people whom I knew were doing the research in the area, whi, which I was interested

Mhmm

which was peptide research, and uh trying to see if I can advance my research
And then I thought, well, if I go back to Poland, I didn’t expect to stay
And in the meantime uh my job at the university in Poland was terminated, and I wondered they needed my position for the woman who was the wife of the 3rd Secretary of the communist party
Finally when I was terminated from my job, uh, there was no need for me to go back, because I would not be able to find job anywhere in Poland, because obviously everything was controlled by communist
So that I decided to stay and to look for the possible, possibility for me to find a job in the U.S.

And wha, what job did you find ?

Um

So you were in New York ?

Yes, I was very active, of course since I was involved in the research
I knew the key people who were involved in peptide research
There were not many of them, but at least there was one good team in New York and Columbia
Um, there was another one at, uh, Cleveland Clinic, and there was another one in Houston, and so, uh, I check with all of them and, uh, the place in New York was unavailable because they hired, um, somebody, um, about a week before I came
Uh but uh, uh, I was invited to the interview to Houston
I was surprised but uh, prepared for my trip and I arrived to Houston and had interview with a professor at Baylor College of Medicine and he gave me the employment, and so it was relatively simple

And then what were you doing on like a day-to-day basis ?

Uh, well, uh, when I arrived to Houston I uh, obviously received a job
I received the job as “Research Associate,” and um, obviously this was associated with a reasonable salary, but the salary was paid once a month, so I had to think, what do I do for the 1st half of the month, because I came in the middle of the month, and didn’t have any money (laughing: both), but some good people loaned me some money so I, I have enough money to rent the apartment, and finally after I got my pay, I was able to do quite well, and I was able to advance, uh, in peptide research

So were you able to do your own research or

Absolutely. Absolutely

that they wanted you to do ?

Absolutely, and uh, I was quite lucky to join the team of the famous professor
Professor George H
er, uh, who was initially professor of Sorbonne in Paris
Then in World War II he emigrated to U.K. and he was professor at Oxford, and so finally he came to U.S., and, uh, he put together the peptide research team
He needed people who know how to do analysis of peptides, so that’s why he hired me
And uh I uh told him that I have my own project, which is peptides, and if you wouldn’t mind that I do some research of mind, and he agreed
So basically this was gentleman agreement that I will spend 50% of my time working for him, and spend 50% time, working in my area
Uh, the equipment and the instruments were the same, so it wasn’t too difficult

And then you, and then when you had something to show then, when. when you had even more of something to show them, how was that received, because you see, I’ve really got something here ?

Ah

I think I’ve got something here

Absolutely, it was received with great curiosity, and, um, and obviously he needed people who could use, the cutting edge, uh, methods for peptide analysis, and that’s what I knew about, but I couldn’t use this for him because I didn’t have funds to do it, but I knew exactly what needs to be done, and on the other hand, uh, this was great surrounding because just across the corridor, another team receive a Nobel Prize for working on peptides
The only problem is, uh, one of these researchers uh was of Polish origin who received Nobel Prize for peptides (laughing)

Yeah

began, uh, fighting with the other one and finally his job was terminated because he punched (laughing)

Punched him ?

the other guy in the nose (laughing)

Yeah
Huh

So, but the good thing about it is that ultimately I inherited uh, their equipment

Yeah

for peptide research, so

Wow. So that must have been like a, like, a, a child in a sweet shop

Absolutely, so was a great coincidence so

So then you were really able to, to, to, to look at it in more detail, and ?

Absolutely, so then of course I was really out of work uh, and the team of Dr. Unger, and also, uh, I was spending a lot of time, uh, progressing in my research, which was very important uh, of course it means long hours uh, ’cause of, uh, 8 hours I would spending working for Dr. Unger and probably not 8 hours until midnight working on my uh, project, but uh, I enjoy it
In the meantime I need to prepare for exams because I wanted to have a license
So I was lucky because uh, within 3 months I was able to pass exams to uh, to naturalize my diploma, and then uh, just, uh, the day, on the eve of my birthday, on January 22nd, President Nixon had a speech in which he promised American people that by 200th anniversary of America, they would have a cancer cure, and no limits would be set on the funding
So then I thought, well, if that’s the case, perhaps I should apply for the grant also, and I did
It was crazy idea because I could barely understand when the people were talking to me (laughing: both)
Well I decided to put together grant application, in to the National Cancer Institute, and include the project on the peptides which I discovered, and I was surprised when this was approved
So then in uh 1971 I get approved as Principle Investigator, to do the project, which included eh, the top people from M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, and from Baylor College of Medicine, um, and I was supervising this
I was at that time 28 years old, but I was supervising the guys who were famous, and who were some like 60 years old (laughing)

Wow

and so the money was coming to me from the National Cancer Institute, and I was uh daily uh, running the project, sharing, obviously with the guys from M.D. Anderson, so, and going ahead with the research, so
and of course at that time I was disappointed to have to (work ?) with M.D. Anderson and Baylor, and then I could move independently what I was doing

So at what point were you actually, able to start testing on people

Mmm
It took a long time because

I mean you couldn’t wait, right ?

Yeah it took a long time because obviously um, initially you have to go through a lot of pre-clinical testing
The 1st time it was uh, around the beginning of ’77, yeah
So then we began phase I clinical trials, and this phase I clinical trials were approved by one of the very good hospitals in Houston, which is part of the hospital chain American Medical International, and they interviewed my project and their Institutional Review Board approved it for clinical trials
Well then I did my 1st clinical trials, phase I clinical trial, with a medication that I am not using at this moment because we made further progress of course, at a hospital, and this hospital at that time was called Twelve Oaks Hospital
At this time it’s called River Oak Hospital

Yep

Yes

And then, at what, at what, was there a time where you realized: This is actually working ?

Well, now this was in 1977, and (laughing) surprisingly, uh, uh, perhaps one of the 1st successful case where you can really, document a clear-cut improvement by doing the scan before and after
It shows tremendous decrease of uh, uh, tumors which corresponded to colon cancer which spread to the liver
(This guy was ?)
(laughing)

(?)

(laughing)
And uh, his case was so interesting, that when I sent it for press, the editors decided to put us on the cover, of the journal, the scan

Yeah

They decided to put on the cover of Science, showing the tumor before, and, after the treatment
Eh, so this was uh , obviously

And then what happened ?
Didn’t that m kinda, didn’t word spread like wildfire and people, more and more people want to come and see you ?

Ah, Absolutely, well the 1st excitement occurred, basically what the President Nixon promised ok

That he would deliver

Yeah

cancer cure uh, by ’70, uh 6, 1976, and we did, ok, and we did deliver cancer cure

Yeah

by 1976, 1977 ok, and um, the um, main uh event was the presentation of uh our theory on our research, on perhaps one of the largest uh scientific (congress ? conference ?) in America, involved 19,000 uh, researchers attended
Eh this was annual meeting of the Federation of the Societies of Experimental Medicine and Biology
It happened that at that time it was in Anaheim, California
Uh, I sent uh, uh, the abstract of my presentation, and I was simply, patiently waiting until this would be shown, which was in ’76
In June ’76 right before 4th of July, and uh, I was surprised when they notified me that um, my abstract was selected out of one of few, which was in great interest of the news media, like Associated Press, for instance, and then when I did my presentation, then Associated Press decided to make a release of this, and then you can read about it in newspapers all over the world
In uh, (laughing) distant places like Buenos Aries, receiving CBS newspaper clips from all corners of the world

And what was that like for you ?
I mean, how did that feel, just to see that your name was, all over the world ?

This was the 2nd time, what (?) this happened to me, because 1st time it made such news, by working on brain peptides with Professor Unger; this was around ’72, and suddenly, this wasn’t so much of my

Yeah, but still it was your (interest ?)

involvement, but I was working together with Professor Unger, and we made a great news, by discovery of, certain peptide in the brain, and then it spread all over the world, and then again, uh, uh, CBS

What was that like ?
I mean, how did you feel when you saw ?

Well, uh, it was surprising because uh suddenly we got uh news people coming, and the TVs from various countries, especially from Europe, for instance, from variety of corners, like from Europe, from New Zealand, from Brazil
You name it ok ?
Eh, so there was a great excitement about it, but 1st time that this excitement happened was, is around ’72, uh, really, eh, is typically what happened after such excitement, is the ? iation ?)
ok

Yeah (laugh)

Well, uh, (laughing) the uh, establishment is and this um will attack you and will try to destroy you

Did you know that was going to happen before ?

I knew it would because in Poland, uh, my father’s, uh, gave me the book of um MIT Professor, uh, Thomas Kuhn
(here’s a guy ? try to translate to (?)
(laughing)

(?) yeah
Yeah, probably

(laughing) sure
and then uh, this was uh, the book which was titled eh, Structures of Scientific Revolutions
It happens that this book was translated to Polish language as couple of years after it was printed, in U.S.; which was around uh, I think 19 uh, 64 probably, ok
So then I read the book, and the book shows uh, how, eh, the paradigm shift occurs, ok, and the, it never fails
It always goes through the same stages
1st it’s short period of excitement, and the a long time of harassment and persecution, and then finally the brief period when uh, uh, if you survive, then uh, the other people say
well it’s obvious
We always knew (laughing) that this

Yeah

was going to happen, ok ?
So I knew what was going to happen, uh, but uh, it was hard for me to believe it uh that, uh, in the 20th century, 21st century it could happen, ok, but then uh, when uh, I began going through this, it was like going to some uh, unpleasant disease
You read about it in the books and

Yeah (?)

then uh, you finding one symptom after another, and it affects you

Yeah

and you know that it could be deadly,
(?) survive

Well you could have ended up in prison, right ?

Yeah

(?)

You may die before uh, you be able to do anything

Mhmm

So the advice of the author of the book, was that you have to start early to make some medical discovery, because you probably have years of harassment in front of you, and probably the best chance that uh, you get accepted if you live longer than your opponent, because some guys will never accept you (laughing)

Yeah

until they die
So that’s what happened
Well then, of course, I witnessed what happened with Professor Unger
Yeah, he made the great news, and obviously I contributed to what he had, but he was uh, my boss, and then obviously I did not much, suffer much from retaliation, but he did, ok
So there was retaliation, and uh, they accused him of everything possible, uh, finally causing for him to move from Houston to Memphis, Tennessee, eh, zzz, about year later he died
So unfortunately his research was never brought to the time when it was accepted, ok
It was great research, ok, and if had really to more resource and time I can bring this to be accepted, because this isn’t a completely different field
This is brain function, memory, and peptides working in the brain
But at that time unfortunately the project was killed, which is great loss for humanity, eh, ’cause the discoverer passed away, and the product was gone together with him
It can be still resurrected, and I think it will be
Eh, so then, for me, eh, it meant only advancement, unfortunately, because, uh, when uh, uh, he was stripped from the funds, I received funding from the National Cancer agency funding from the university, and I was able to support him, because he was stripped of his grants and funds
So he was able to move forward with his research, but finally when he moved, I inherited very large laboratories
My laboratory was located in 3 buildings
So the lab space and uh, uh, some prime location, in the medical school
So then I did very well, then, of course, the publicity occurred, and this publicity was centered around me, not around both of us

Yeah

at that time, in ’76, and then again there was about 1/2 a year when there was a great enthusiasm, uh, good wishes, whatever, and after that, a retaliation occurred, ok
So then obviously

Mhmm
And what was, what, what was at the heart of the retaliation ?

Uh, well,

The fact that their people didn’t want this to come to the fore ?

Initially there was some overtures to take away the discovery from me, and uh, for instance, uh, uh, uh, Baylor College congratulated me
I received diploma, so suddenly became superstar, ok (laughing)

Yeah

and then, of course, uh, the wise people, the business people from the university said: “Look, probably we should talk now about patents, we should talk about pharmaceutical companies, we should try to, somehow, put this to motion,” ok, and that’s what we did
So then uh, we talked to some of the best lawyers in the country
Of course, uh, the university uh, are in control of this
There were visits of uh, pharmaceutical companies
I remember one of them came from the research center in U.K., from High uh, Wycombe , and this was so (encouraging that ?) was very interested, what we do
But then uh, the intention was just to take uh, my, uh, in, invention away from me, and obviously

Mhmm

I would have very little to, to, do to promote this, to develop this any further
So I thought about it and I felt that I’m not going to do it
There then uh, I was offered to join the mainstream cancer research at Baylor cancer medicine, and obviously uh, I would receive much better title, of professor

Yeah

and obviously there would be much better equipped laboratory, but again eh, they wanted me to, completely quit private practice of medicine, ’cause at the same time I was practicing medicine, which many researchers were doing
I was working at Baylor College and then I was practicing medicine uh, outside Baylor College, in the group of the other doctors
So in this way I had some independence, because obviously, I could always practice medicine (laughing)

And did you always want to keep your independence,

Yes

and did you know that was always a good thing ?

That’s right, that’s right
Because I, I did not want to be uh, at the mercy of the university or the government
Uh, but I still wanted to stay in academic surrounding, because obviously I came from a family which has great tradition of academic careers
So that’s something which obviously my father was always telling me that I should be really staying in the university, ok
Eh, uh, uh, but finally I decided that I was not going to accept this offer because uh, why should I resign from my private practice

Mmm

It didn’t hurt my research in any way
So I decided to continue, and uh, then that’s when the retaliation occurred, and uh, I was (crazy ?), harassed, and attacked, and finally

And how were you harassed ?
I mean, letters or (peop ?)

Mmm, well, as I could do the research for such a long time, because really, this was some like 7 years at the university, because uh, very few people in the university knew what I was doing, because I was only responding to the National Cancer Institute, and uh, I was not part of the mainstream cancer research center
What happened is that uh, (laugh) I was employed by the Department of Anesthesiology, which obviously, on the surface has nothing to do with cancer, but, who cares ?
I was receiving grants from the National Cancer Institute, and so Anethesiology was a very wealthy department, and they had a lot of space, but they were doing very little research
So they wanted to do some type of research, and uh, the chairman of the department was supportive of my doing cancer research
So basically I conducted uh, Anethesiology
laboratory into cancer, into cancer research laboratory, and very few people knew about it
They learn about it
when uh, the Associated Press (laughing) broke the news
So then uh, the retaliation happened

Mhmm

and then they wanted me to join the mainstream, but obviously I was enjoying very much (laughing) working, in peace and tranquility, and responding only to the National Cancer Institute
So then uh, what happened at that time was that uh, obviously Dr. Unger, moved to another university, and um, uh, the chairman of the department uh, his uh, uh, employment was terminated, because it uh, he was involved in uh, the war between 2 superstars of (the ?)
One of Dr. DeBakey
and the other one was Dr. Cooley
They were 2 famous, eh, eh, cardiovascular surgeons, who were competing with each other
Ehhh, Dr., eh, the chairman of the department, was on the side of Dr. Cooley, but the boss of, uh, Baylor College was Dr. DeBakey
So after Dr., Dr. DeBakey
learned that, uh, the sympathy of Chairman of the Department; which was Dr. Cooley, his job was terminated
So then they, took another man; very old, professor, who was already retired, to be the chairman of the department
They, he knew nothing about, any type of research (laugh), especially cancer research, and, uh, once I decided to not join the mainstream, Baylor Research Center, eh, the people who are in charge of Baylor Research Center, they put a pressure, on the new chairman of the department, and they frightened him, saying look, you are, uh, in a charge of anesthesiology, but here’s a guy doing cancer research, eh, and see this was a great, uh, like liability to you, and pretty soon he may be sued, uh, without knowing what he’s doing
Ok
So then, uh, they, they, um, brainwashed the old man, and he decided to strip me, slowly from my laboratories, eh, and, and, harass me
Ok, uh, ultimately, he sent me the letter that, uh, in which he informed me that he does not see any connection between, uh, my research and anesthesiology; which was obvious, eh, but obviously I was doing the research which made the university famous, more or less

Yeah

So then one thing to another, and I decided, no, I am not going to work with, in this environment anymore, and I decided to do, try to do on my own, to start my own laboratory
So that’s what happened
Ok

And then you did that ?
You had your own, laboratory ?

Yes, and then I decided, this was just the beginning of 1977, and, uh, e, we put together a laboratory; of course I already had private practice, and, uh, I was still working

In your private practice

Yes

you were still seeing patients ?

Absolutely, absolutely

Seeing any results ?

Yeah, seeing patients, getting results
I began phase I clinical trials

Mhmm

in the hospital where I was seeing patients
I had patients at that time, in about 2 or 3 different hospitals, uh, but the hospital, where I get permission to do clinical trials, was a most supportive, and that’s why I did it this way, and, uh, obviously it was necessary for me to build from scratch, the laboratory, the research laboratory
I decided that I just, uh, I just, uh, make some funds in, our private practice, and at that time, of course, this was just, um, general (?) private practice, internal medicine private practice, em, and, uh, the funds which I produced in private practice I can use to, put together the laboratory, and that’s what we did
Ok
Step by step we build the laboratory, and we expanded our private practice
So basically, I switch from the government and then I found it best to fund the research, just privately funded research, which nothing unusual, thhh, some like 50 years before everyone was doing it

Everyone is doing this

Yes, and there’s still some people, especially in the U.K., who are doing this
Ok

Yeah

Um, the most of the discoveries were made through the, sss, through the research that was funded, by the researchers

Mhmm

There are also some, wealthy people who donated the money to do it
So only after World War II, this was, um, the system was created where, the researchers became, um, really became the slaves so, the government

Mhmm

and pharmaceutical companies, and new companies, and if they do not receive the money, they couldn’t do anything
This way I could have independence, and, uh, do whatever I want
Yes

So at what point did it get to where, action was taken against you, and you knew that you were going to have to go to court ?

The action, um, um, started very soon, and the, and began at the lowest level, which is like, county level, and then you go obviously

Mhmm

higher as you move along, and when, uh, I was leaving, uh, the university, the chairman promised me that (laugh) when I leave, uh, the obviously, quote, unquote, “They will bust my ass”
Ok ?

Yeah

(laughing)

When leaving the university

When I was leaving the university ?

Yeah

Yes
And, uh, he promised me that, uh, they will trigger the action from Harris County’s Medical Society; which is probably the lowest level of harassment and just, the somewhat prestigious society if you are are a good doctor practicing medicine, in Harris County, where Houston is, then you should be a member of the Harris County Medical Society
Uh, if you are not a member of Harris County Medical Socity they won’t grant you privileges to see patients in hospital
So this was important to be a member of the Harris County Medical Society because I was practicing medicine

Why do you think
Why do you think they wanted to stop you ?

Why did’d they wanted me to stop ?

Yeah

Well, probably just for the heck of it
I don’t know

(Laughing: both)

Ok

Well do you think they were threatened by you ?

Well, I doubt it
Their probably some type of revenge
Ehhh, since I didn’t yield to their harassment, and I decided to do whatever I was doing, and decide to do it on my own

Mhmm

and they felt, well, let’s try to kick his behind if we can
Ok

Yeah

Well I don’t think I was, uh, causing any threat to them at all, because this was really, large institution

So it escalated ?

Yes
Just starting at the lowest level
It was, eh, unpleasant because they were dragging me to like, holy inquisition proceeding, explain what I was doing, and basically they’re trying to force me to stop what I was doing by using various ways
Obviously they didn’t have any, uh, reason to do it because, uh, my clinical research; which I was doing in the most, done under the supervision of, Institutional Review Board, and before I started anything I asked, uh, I retained medical lawyers, and I asked them to check, if I can, uh, for instance, do the research to use medicine, and use it, in a patient, and they
checked with this, State authorities, Federal authorities, and at that time it was perfectly alright
So I was doing, everything, legally
So, they really couldn’t do much, but, they were harassing me, asking for me to give them a lot of documents, whatever, and suddenly, all of it stopped
It stopped because they were exposed by news media

Yeah

So, when the article was written about it, they disappeared from, the horizon, and then they never, harass me since then (laugh)

Yeah

I think it’s, lasted probably for, 2 or 3 years, and then it was gone, so

And then, and then how did that end up ?
How did you end up going to court for the 1st time then ?

Oh well, so obviously there was no, uh, issue of going to court at that time, it was only the issue that, I might not be a member of, uh

But you might not have been able to practice medicine

the medical society, and then I would not be able to see patients in the hospital
Ok
So this was deliberate, ok, and at that time, m, most of my patients were treated in the hospital, because I didn’t have yet the system to use treatment outside the hospital, like for instance the pumps that we are using now
They did not exist at that time
So it was necessary to use I.V. posts

Mhmm

and, uh, and heavy pump, heavy treatment
So then, uh, so this was, uh, it started around ’78, it continued for a couple of years, and then nothing happened after that
I was visited by, um, FDA people, but we have pretty constructive meeting
They didn’t bother me, and, uh, the next attack occurred in a 1983, and this was by, uh, Food and Drug Administration
So, suddenly I was sued, and, um, they really wanted to put me out of business
Ok

They didn’t just want to put you out of business
I mean, they wanted you, they wanted you to go to prison

No, in ni, 1983, they wanted me out of business

Right, just out of business

Yeah

Don’t want you practicing

Shut down, what I am doing, and they did it, secretly (laugh)
Most of this actions occurred around, uh, just before say Passover, and Easter
Ok

Yeah

Every year
It never failed
Ok (laughing), a, and a usually they were attacking, uh, uh

Someone

No, no
For instance it happened for instance I was away, and, uh, they were filing papers in court, like, um, around 5 p.m. on Thursday, ok, and Friday was day off, because was big Friday, Good Friday
Ok
So then, obviously, um, they then
realized I’d be away because I participated in some T.V. program, and they want to do it while I was away, but, uh, it so happens that
a one of the friendly lawyers was in court at the time, and he overheard whatever they were doing, ok (laughing),they were going for injunction, ok, and so then, uh, I would be stopped immediately
I wouldn’t be able to do much, ok, until the judge would reverse it, but, uh, he read about it and he prepared immediately temporary restraining order, and filed at the same time (laughs)

Yeah

So then, uh, I could practice without any interruptions, but, uh, then, of course,

So do you think of all the people that were trying to stop you

Yeah

Do you think any of those people actually, really, genuinely believed that you were causing harm to people

Hmmm

or do you think that they were just stopping you because ?

I think some stupid people,was at the lower level, like, uh, uh, some lower level FDA agents, they didn’t know what they were doing
They were manipulated, ok, but the guys who above, they knew very well (laughs) that, I was right

They knew what they were doing

Absolutely

They knew you were doing something

Absolutely, yes

groundbreaking

They knew very well, and that’s the reason why they attack me
Ok
Yeah
It’s obvious
So this 1st encounter, was relatively brief
Uh, we went to court, which was Federal court, and the judge, uh, would rule in our favor, and the judge, uh, uh, in the verdict, uh, cleared me from any, of the charges, and, uh, I found that I could, uh, I could treat anybody, by using my methods, but I cannot really, uh, sell medications outside the State of Texas, and that’s what I was not doing anyway
So really,
the judge
affirmed what I was doing

Right

That I’m free to use my invention, and treat people in the State of Texas, which made, of course, the government, uh, people furious, and they threatened the judge
They send the judge a letter saying that, if the judge will not rule their way, then they will go after me with criminal investigation, uh, with seizures, uh, eh, grand jury investigation
That’s what they did as the next step

When was the next step ?
How many years later was that ?

Well again, there was some like couple of years when it was relative quiet
Of course, in order to be, eh, in, eh, in order to do what I was doing, it was necessary for me to have inspection, by the inspectors, approved by the FDA, who
check our manufacturing facility, and, ah, certify that what ever we do, we do right, and there are no discrepancies
So this was obviously something, very difficult, because obviously we knew that the FDA inspectors
will always find something wrong, you know

Yeah

So these agents are trained to always find something wrong, but anyway, at inspection, uh, found we are doing everything perfect
Ok (laughs)
So we were able to pass the inspection
Uh, we are in full compliance with what is called good manufacturing practices, and then everything was quite until about 3 years later when, uh, there was a raid on our clinic by the FDA, and seizure of, ah, medical records, and then there was another, uh, obviously, ah, another, uh, part of the war began, and then, uh, we file a lawsuit against FDA, and, uh, as a result the judge forced the FDA to give back some, of the documents, and permit us to, uh, be able to copy the rest of the documents, and so then, uh, FDA began a grand jury process, and, uh, there was some, like 4 different grand juries, uh, ah, which did not find me, guilty of anything, and then finally 5th grand jury was able to indict me, which was in ’95
Ok

So when you were, when you were going to court; because I remember seeing in the

Yeah

Burzynski, the movie

Yes

I remember seeing in the photographs

Yeah

around here

Sure

there were lots and lots of people outside there (?)

Yeah

What was that like to see that ?

Oh well, ah, this was, uh, going for ever, going to court, and obviously I was going before this grand jury investigation, whatever, but ultimately, their lawsuit, uh, the trial began, in, ah, January of ’96, and, uh, it took a number of months
Ok
So I was going to court almost every day, and the people realized what was going on, and they were giving us a lot of support
So then you can see people outside the court

What was that like to see your patients ?

Well it was, ah, it was, ah, very good, uh, uh, show of (laughs)

Yeah

patient solidarity
They wanted obviously, to help us, and they knew that, uh, they have the power, and, uh, they knew that they were fighting for their lives
Ok ?
So they, uh, were dedicated people
It wasn’t easy because this was winter, and it was raining, and so it was cold weather, but obviously

Were you prepared to, to face what you could have faced, you know, that you actually could have gone to prison ?

Sure, yes
I, I knew, but I was, convinced that I am going to win
So, should I, obviously, statistically it was, uh, highly unlikely, but, uh (laugh)

Do you think that this will stop one day ?

That people will just get off your back, and (laugh)

(laughs)

you know

(?)

and can see what you’ve done

(?)

and, and see that there’s really something there

Absolutely

This is just the (?)

Absolutely, absolutely
I
That’s what I was convinced was going, to happen, and, uh, I was convinced that we are going to win, with FDA

Good, ’cause I mean, anyone does any research

Yeah

you know
I had this on here

Yeah, sure

which I’m sure you’ve seen, like on Wikipedia

Yeah

and what it says
That there’s no convincing evidence

Yeah, sure

that a randomized controlled trial has, you know
That your work, that, that there’s nothing there

Yeah

What’s that like when you come across that stuff
Do you just not read it, and just

So (laughs)
Simply don’t pay attention to it, because it, it’s not true
Ok

Yeah

You won’t be able to, do any, clinical research which we do, without convincing evidence, especially when you have the most powerful agency in the government which is against you

They’re against you, but you’ve been working with them for, for

Yes, so since 1997
Yes, but you see

Yeah

Obviously they didn’t have any sympathy to us because they lost
So they would love to find something which is wrong with what we are doing
They would love to prove that the treatment doesn’t

Yeah

So this is, very difficult
Ah, so the fact that they’ve, um, agreed that what we have has value, and they allow us to do phase 3 clinical trials, it means that we are right
Ok ?

Yeah

Because, uh, uh, nobody who didn’t have any, concrete evidence that it works, would be able to go as far
Ok

Yeah

So whatever Wikipedia says, well, I don’t care for them (laughing)

Ok, so, we, we talked a little bit about, what you, where you’ve come from, and what you’ve been through
As far as your treatment, um, to cancer, and this I’m very interested in, and why you don’t think high doses of chemotherapy is, is particularly helpful for the body, and what

Well it is generally wrong approach
It can help, some patients, wi, with a rare form of cancer, but only, eh, in limited capacity
Those who, are quote, unquote “cured”, usually die later on from adverse reactions, of chronic adverse reactions from chemotherapy or radiation, or they develop secondary cancer
So certainly, there is, this is not such a cure which you have in mind, that, use the treatment, patient recovers and lives normal life
Such cure does not exist for patients who are taking chemotherapy or radiation
They will always suffer, some problems
Either from cancer, or radiation, chemotherapy, and there is only small minority of patients who have advanced cancer who can, have long term responses
So obviously, this is unacceptable treatment
Of course, it was important at certain stage of development, but now, of course, uh, when we know more about cancer, it’s becoming, uh, unacceptable, and I think it will disappear, from the surface of the earth, in another 10 years, or 15 years, and, uh, in the medical textbook, this will be described as strange period of time, when people were using some barbaric treatment
Ok

Mmm
You have a number of different ways of treating cancer
So, one of them is the antineoplastons

Yes

This, this, this is the peptides

Mhmm

The, the this is the thing that my partner is on at the moment

Sure

in the clinical trial, and, uh, you’ve had some real great success

Mhmm

using that
Right ?

Yes

But you also have

Mhmm

another way, of, of, of treating, which is, using, it’s using some sort of chemotherapy, but in low doses

Well, um, um, whatever we are using we are using treatment which works on the genes

Antineoplastonswork on the genes, and they work on about 100 different genes

So what are they doing to the genes ?

Well, they work as molecular switches
They turn off the genes which are causing cancer, and turn on the genes which are fighting cancer
So, that’s what they do, and they produce this in about 100 different genes
It’s not enough, to control all cancer
Actually you can control some cancers, but not all of them, because you may have, numerous genes involved, in cancer
Well, for instance, in average case of breast cancer may have 50 abnormal genes involved
Uh, in, uh, like grade 3 brain tumors, for instance, anaplastic astrocytoma you might 80, or might be 100, but if, uh, you go to highly malignant tumors like, glioblastoma, you have, probably about 550
Eh, if you don’t cover such a spectrum of genes, you won’t, you’re not going to have good results
So that’s why, we know from the very beginning that we have some limitations
We can help some patients but not all of them, because, they have involvement of different genes which are causing, their cancer
So then you can still have these patients who are combining the treatmentof antineoplastons,with different medications which are in existence, which work on different genes, and this includes also some chemotherapy drugs, which are available
Eh, so this means that, um, for the patients for whom we, cannot use antineoplastons, because they are not in clinical trials, then we are using combination treatment, which consists of medication which already, approved as prescription medications, and, uh, by using the right combination by knowing which genes we need to attack, we get much better results
Now this also includes chemotherapy, but we never use, high-dose chemotherapy
If necessary, we use low-dose chemotherapy, and when you use low-dose chemotherapy you don’t have, uh, toxicity, which is, bad
We use this for
patients continuously, without much problem

So, so one of the main reasons of using low-dose chemotherapy is to try and keep your immune system strong, as well ?

No, to try to quickly decrease the size of the tumor, in combination with the other medications
We can use, for instance, low-dose chemotherapy and another medication which will increase activity,of chemotherapy, and as a result, you can have, as good, uh, uh, decrease of the tumor, with the low-doses

when you use heavy-dose
Well, there’s nothing unusual about it
For instance, uh, many doctors are using medications which are quite toxic

Mmm

And they, if they use the dosages, it’s helpful to the patient
The question is, what dosage will you use ?
If you use the dosages which are not toxic, it may still help the results, for instance, eh, the medication which was introduced, in mid, uh, 18th century for a particle for heart failure, in U.K. by
Dr. Withering, which was digitalis extract
Obviously it was highly toxic medication
It can kill people, in dosages much smaller than chemotherapy, but if you use the right dosage, it can help people
It was helping people for over 200 years
So those are the question
What kind of dosage do you use, and what combination do you use, and then, it can be useful

How did work that out then ?
I mean, how did you work out

Mhmm

that using small dosages of chemotherapy, could be effective ?

Uh, well, uh, it’s not only based on, uh, our research, it’s based on the research of the other, doctors
There are numerous publications on the subject, and in many cases the low-dosages can be used more effective than high-dosages, and, uh, on the other hand, by doing genetic testing, we can identify, which, uh, medications are the best for the patient

‘Cause you use

(?)

’cause you use a lab, in Phoenix
Right ?

Correct, yes

And, and how did you find out about them ?
Um, how did you ?
Yeah

Well, uh, uh, frankly speaking (laughs), 1st time I find about it by, treating patients who’s referred to us by one of the best oncologists in the country
He was usually treating some movie stars (laughs)

Yeah

and I found that this patient had, uh, genetic testing done, and I got interested in this, and I found about this laboratory
It was some time ago, but anyway, while we were doing genetic testing before, but, uh, we didn’t use this laboratory yet, we did it, through some other laboratories, and such testing was much, much simpler
So, we are using such testing, for a number of years, but in the capacity we are using now, this is really the last 2 to 3 years

So what happens is someone’s, bit of their tissue gets sent off to this lab ?

Yeah, the tissue is sent to the laboratory, and, uh, they do, testing on the entire genome of 24,000 genes
They identify the abnormal genes, and they go in-depth, by studying what happened to these genes?
Are they mutated ?
Are they amplified ?
And then from this, we have, a lot of information, and ultimately we like to know, which medications we can use to treat genes
What we are doing, we are treating genes, rather than, the tumor, as such

Mhmm

And, uh, if you identify all the genes that are involved, and find out which medications we can use, we can have very good results

And that’s what you found ?

That’s right

So in some case you’re treating people that might have a certain type of cancer

Yes, mhmm

with a drug that was designed for a different type of cancer

Uh, that’s right, because we are treating the genes, and, uh, if you find out that, this particular patient has, uh, an abnormal gene, which is not typical for this cancer but we have medication

Hmmm

that works on this gene, that’s what we use

So I would imagine that to treat, uh, that to treat people, this way, is obviously the future
Everyone’s different
Everyone’s genetics are d, d, different

That’s right

genetic markers, but to treat them that way, would require a bit more work

That’s, uh, obviously (laughs) (a life’s ?) work
Uh, uh, we’ll, like, uh, not just simply for, eh, uh, 4 different types of lung cancer

Yeah

Maybe 100,000 different types of lung cancer, each with, different, uh, genetic signature, ok, and once you identify this, then you can treat, such patients logically, and have good results, and if you do it on the scale of, uh, the entire country, this would, uh, give you much better results, and, uh, great savings, because

Mmm

you won’t use expensive medications for everybody, but perhaps for 10% of the population, and then for this 10% of population is going to work

Yeah

Which means that these people will avoid disability
They won’t spend time in the hospital
Uh, they will have short course of treatment, and then they go back to work
So the government would understand, uh, that’s something that can give them a lot of savings
I think they will go for it
Eh, gene testing, eh, at this time is still, uh, relatively expensive
It’s covered by, uh, the insurance of the United States, but for people outside, may cost 5500 euros, for instance, but I think it will be substantially less expensive in the near future
I think it will be below $1,000 for complete testing
So for running the test, uh, uh, eh, and, uh, finding out which treatment, has the best chance, you can save, 100’s of 1,000’s of dollars for individual patients

Yeah, but obviously pharmaceutical companies probably wouldn’t be too happy about that

No, no

People aren’t going to be taking their medications anymore

Well obviously be mostly happy that they can sell a lot of medications, but some of them are beginning to pay the attention, because they have to, because if they don’t, their competitors, will pay the attention

Mmm

Obviously, they would like to have, possibly, the best possible results, in clinical trials, so now they begin to screen population of patients for clinical trials, and do some limited, genetic testing, but, so, of course, they do it, uh, for the better of clinical trials so have best results

Yeah

Doesn’t mean that they’ll do, do it when they sell medicine, to millions of people commercially
They may forget about mentioning this medicine works the best for

Yes

this population of patient (laughs)

So what’s your, your vision ?
Wha, wha, what do you, striving to achieve ?

Well what I am trying to achieve is to introduce the way we treat patients, in, in various countries in the world, and, uh, what this would accomplish is, 1st of all, much better results of the treatment, much simpler treatment where perhaps only 1% of patient would need hospitalization, which would, uh, result in great savings
Uh, the treatment, uh, will be done for shorter period of time
For instance, few months to get rid of the tumors, then, uh, perhaps a year, to stabilize the results, and then go back, working and living, ok, without cancer
This, uh, genetic, genomic testing would be absolutely done for every patient who will come for treatment, to identify, what is the best treatment combination indication
So that’s what I would like to foresee, and then, of course, um, immediately, you substantially reduce, the expenditures for medical
For instance, if, you assume that in the mid, medium-sized country, will spend, for instance, a billion dollar, for, socialized medical treatment which will coincide with hospitalization
Ok
Uh, then, uh, most of the cost is for hospitalization, and services necessary for keeping the patient in hospital, then treating adverse reactions, which are, occurring because of the poor selection of medications
Eh, then if you switch to the outpatient treatment because you use medications which are not going to give such bad, side-effects, because you select this medication based on genomic testing, ok, and then immediately instead of a billion dollars a year, you cut down your expenditures to about $100,000

Yeah

100 million dollars
Ok ?
Probably slash it 10 times
Ok ?
And then people will be happy because, ah, the don’t need to stay in the hospital for a long time
They have less adverse reactions
They can go to back to work, much sooner
Ok
So that’s what I, can foresee as, the treatmentin the future
Not really hospital-based treatment

Mhmm

for patients, and most hospitalization is required because of adverse reactions from chemotherapy, radiation, but outpatient treatment, much easier treatment, also
medication given in tablet forms, for instince

And that’s what you’re doing here, right ?
I mean

Correct, yes correct
Usually in hospital, only, perhaps, for, one or two percent of patients, and, we would like to avoid it because when the patient goes to the hospital, he can pick up, some in-opportunistic infection, and then we are talking about more problem
Of course, I believe detection of cancer will be very important, because you don’t want to, uh, have a patient who is so advanced that he is fighting for, life, and he needs to be in the hospital
Ok

Yeah

If you had diagnosis in the early stages, then the patient does not need hospitalization
He can be treated very easily, then go back to work
So that’s the issue
And of course prevention is another important issue to us
To identify, changes in the body, which may indicate that the patient has already, early stages of cancer, also based on genetic tests, and get rid of this by using, behavior modification, by using proper diet, by using supplements, whatever, even without any medications

So, you’re obviously very passionate about what you do
Right ?
That, that’s my question about that

Well, I think it can help s, people in a great way, and, uh,

Well it can, I mean

Yeah

You have had so many su

Yes

I mean, I was talking to my girlfriend

Yeah

the other day,

Yeah

I mean, people, you know, you hear people say, this is a scam, and I was thinking, well the, if it is a scam

Yeah

it has to be one of the biggest scams ever

(laughing)

because all you’ve gotta do, is look on the walls

Yeah

and you look at those photographs

Yeah

Perhaps, this won’t surprise you
I’ve spoken to some oncologists just in the U.K., and they say, all of these people that you have helped, they either ever had cancer in the 1st place

Mhmm

or they were misdiagnosed

Yeah

or, uh, they went into spontaneous remission

Yeah, well

or they, it was the chemotherapy or radiation

These people, they don’t know what they do
They never, have never seen our results, and obviously they can’t believe that something like this could happen, but suddenly (laughs), in this room we are in now, we have some of
the top experts in the country, like people from FDA, who are expert oncologists, specialists

They’re working with you

Oh, they came here to inspect what we have

Yeah

They look at every scan of the people who are in clinical trials, and they decided that we have very good results

And is that stuff going to be published at some point ?

Ah, yes, we are publi, we are preparing this for publication, but, uh, obviously, in order to have the right results, you need, time, and most of our clinical trials began, approximately 10 years ago
So then we, if you would like to know what happen after, 10 years with these people

Mhmm

then you need to have a little time
So now we are preparing a number of, uh, publications, uh, and so this year we should have a number of publications, which will show final results
So far we didn’t have, final results, so were only interim reports, during the course of clinical trials

And with, uh, with brain tumors; because obviously, that’s an area that you’ve had

Yeah

huge suc, success rate

Yeah

What, why has that, do you think, as opposed to the other, types ?

Because that’s where we selected

Mhmm

We wanted to have something difficult
Ok (laughs)

Yeah

Because, uh, for the same reason that you mentioned
If you’d had something easier then, the doctors could say: “Well, this cancer usually disappears in its own”
And they are right
Some cancers may disappear on its own, in some higher percent than the others

Mhmm

But you know, brain tumors, you read, they never disappear on their own

Yeah

So that’s why we, decided to select such type of malignancies which are the most difficult

So what’s that been like when you’ve seen, I mean, I’ve seen obviously Jodi Fenton’s story

Yeah

Whe, whe, when you see these people’s

Yes

uh, scans

Yeah

and you see that that tumor has shrunk

Yeah

or broken down

Yeah

wha, what does that feel like ? (laughing)

Well, we see this all the time
(?) it just happens almost every day
Even today that we saw the patient, uh, who has pancreatic cancer, and after a few months of treatment it’s practically gone, and she is the wife of a doctor (laughs)
They came together, and that’s, that’s what we see practically every day
Ok

That must give you great strength to

Absolutely

continue

Absolutely, yes
So that’s something which is gratifying (laughs)

Yeah
What do you think the future is as far as drugs for cancer are concerned ?

I believe that, we are still at a very early stages of development in this area, but the future will be, with medications which are, highly specific, they will work on the genes that are involved in cancer
So, they will not harm normal part of the body, and, du, du, how to combine this medications will be established by, the special software, which will guide the doctors how to use proper medication for individual patient
I think this will be the, um, treatment that will be designed for, individual patient, and such design, it is not necessary to be done by the doctor
I think it should be, uh, certain computerized system which will put together, the best possible treatment plan, for a patient; which obviously needs to be checked and approved by the doctor
So I believe that this will be the future of medicine for the next, say, 40, and 50 years, coming up with better and better medications, which will be genomic switches, which will turn off, the cancerous process by regulating the genes which are involved; they simply will bring, the activity of these genes to normal levels, and finally, the new generation of medication which should work on cancerous stem cells, and, the medications which can kill cancerous stem cells without, uh, producing any harm to normal stem cells
So this will be the clue for, long-term control of cancer, because if you don’t eliminate, cancerous stem cells then the cancer will come back

Yeah

And that’s why chemotherapy, usually is unable to control cancer for a long time because, it’s pretty much powerless, ah, uh, regarding action on cancerous stem cells
But then after that, I think that we will make another, jump, and there will be, uh, procedures that will based on biophysics

Mmm

and by trying to get rid of, uh, the cancer and some of the diseases by effecting the body by using various, uh, wipes, which will be like magnetic wipes, it will be some other types of wipes, but using proper frequencies to, normalize all the cells in the body to normalize the activity of the genes
I think this will be a

Mmm

probably the next, uh, say 50 years of, uh, the end of this century when such (?)

So no one’s getting funding really, unless they’re doing it privately to,
being able to, isn’t that being able to research these areas, because funding really comes from pharmaceutical companies ?

Ah, well, most of this funding is from pharmaceutical companies, and also it is coming from the National Cancer Institute but, I think it’s regulated behind the scenes by the pharmaceutical companies
Eh, but they are still some researchers who are trying to do it on their own
Very few of them
I think there’s articles, in the Science magazine, some time ago which was talking about, uh, few of these researchers who are still trying to do, research on their own, and, I think, uh, I think there were probably some 4 or 5 of them in U.K. (laugh)

Yeah

still involved in research on their own

So what ah, what about the role of the mind ?
Do you think that, if someone has cancer and they wanna be well, do you think the way that someone thinks is important ?

Absolutely, that’s very important because, this, uh, can be translated, ah, to various biochemicals which can influence cancer
So obviously this is very important but, the question is how to, ah, direct this in the proper way
Ok
How to quantify this
So that’s something that should be done in the future

And nutrition as well

Yes, absolutely, yes
Why all have a lot of important chemicals in nutrition which can effectuate cancer, but regarding the mind you have to translate, uh, for instance, biophysical factors, in the brain, into biochemical factors, and certainly, that’s what the body’s doing all the time, but how to mobilize it, that’s a different story
Yeah

So if someone wants, if someone came to the Burzynski Clinic, wh, wh, what could they expect, to happen here?

Well 1st of all, we would like to give a selection, and we don’t want the people who we cannot treat to come
Uh, at this time we rather avoid, uh, patients in early stages of cancer, because with such patients, uh, what is used is standard of care treatment, and we prefer to refer them to, ah, different doctors
So we prefer to treat it once cancer patient, because, uh, they cannot be helped by the other doctors, and, uh, when they come to our clinic, we try to find out 1st, see if we can really help them or not, and, uh, once they come to the clinic, in most of the cases we can try to, help them, of course, and, uh, we put together, the personalized treatment plan, which is (?)

But all of those go through you
You look at every single one of those

Yes
I’m seeing every patient, who’s coming, if I’m

Yeah

if I’m around here, but, after that all the patients are really assigned to different senior physician and they’re responsible for daily care of patient here

How many people do you have, working here now ?

About 150 people here, yes

And you started with, well, just one (?)

Eh, I think really when we moved from Baylor College I had about 7 people at that time

Yeah

Yes, because, some of these doctors who are working together at Baylor College decided to leave together with me, including my wife, because she was also working at Baylor College

Yeah

Ok

Thank you

You’re welcome
My pleasure

Thank you so much

Thank you very much
Ok
======================================

======================================

Pete Cohen chats with Dr. Juan F. Martinez-Canca, Neurosurgeon (Consultant) about Hannah Bradley

======================================
Juan F. Martinez-Canca – Consultant – Neurosurgeon
(20:31)
======================================
So tell me a little about brain tumors

When did you kind of first come across your first brain tumor ?

My very first brain tumor was in high school, unknown entity, fascinating, enigmatic

Unknown, is the word

Uh yes, I hoped

I must say the uh vocation initially in my case came at an early stage in my life

I remember very well, 3 years old saying I will be a doctor, a doctor, a doctor, and gradually I became aware of this vocation from neurosurgery but really I didn’t know what from because of vocations like see it
I put in my soul, so what ?
Here we are

vocation
realize that in the following years
My first professional brain tumor was impressed in 1996, something called glioblastoma multiforme, and I was uh, uh, shocked, and thrilled, and excited by seeing a nasty glioma as my register described it

And I was uh in as you can see my poor English
I just wrote in my notebook nasty glioma must be nasty in the history of classification

That person died, unfortunately after a few months, it was a very bad disease, at that stage, was really advanced and uh that was my first ? with reality
The glioblastoma, or nasty gliomas kill people
And that was the starting point of a, of a very complex process that I am still never looking (?)
——————————————————————
Hannah’s Operation (1:35)
——————————————————————
In the case of Hannah we wanted to wake her up to make sure that we could remove the whole entire ter (?) as much as we can see, or feel it, without damaging, basic structures

Language, relation with outside world, movement, etcetera, etcetera

That requires a very specific and very expert high expertise from the, from the surgeon, because normally everyone is not awake during this
It’s a very specific operation

Mr ? we were lucky, was there to do it, and I was lucky enough to be the co-pilot

So we performed this procedure
I can’t remember the date now

April, the 1st

April
Correct
Good date
So

April Fools Day

On April the 1st we awakened ?
and I remember very well, that huge feeling of satisfaction, at the end of the procedure

I have, I still have my pictures, do you remember ?

We were taking some pictures during the operation
and that is ? like a trophy, because some people are not very good, some of the people are not very well, but in this case we had fantastic surgeon, a fantastic patient, and a great environment, and it worked very well
And the end of the operation, I remember seeing Hannah’s brain without physical tumor, microscopic means with the eyes
Of course, millions and millions of cells still widespread in the brain
A tumor is never a circumscribed entity
It goes all over the place
Nevertheless, it was a very satisfactory physical procedure
We send the samples for histological purposes
and unfortunately we were wrong, because it was not a grade 2, not a grade 1, it was a grade 3 tumor
? the next step
The grading of the tumors
When grade 1’s and 2’s, usually consider the good guys in the field
But not a good thing to have a brain tumor, but you have to choose, choose a grade 1, or a grade 2
Grades 3 and 4 featured by malignancy
By aggressiveness
They are far more active tumors than the 1’s and 2’s
Maybe the grow much bigger, and they are far more aggressive than the other 2
Specially grade 4
——————————————————————
(3:42)
——————————————————————
So you got out most of it, yeah ?

Yeah, it was fun but got a good job here because you’ve got most of the tumor out, and we have Hannah talking, moving, and uh conversing normally
She was no percentage (?) deficit
At some point during the operation she had some stuff, a fitting, some sort of vagueness and she couldn’t talk very well, so we had to stop right away, and change the level of, of oxygenation, but other the operation, microscopically speaking, the whole tumor was taken away

So the tumor was taken away, so it was a success, but in the back of your mind did you know that, did, the job was not complete ?

We always know
We always know that
Except when we are talking with a benign meningeal (?) grade 1 that we can take physically lump away
Except in those cases of rare, rare success and joy
Most of the tumors we know, have millions of cells that remain in the brain, and they can be very, very aggressive

So, did you know in the back of your mind that what you were really doing, in this case, was probably just prolonging her life ?

Uh, in a way we are providing a setting, for a 2nd stage therapy to take place
Certainly, if we do nothing about it in the large (?), which is a (?) part of her brain, Hannah had little chance to survive, many weeks from now
Once the whole thing developed, we knew it was a count down
We need to do 2 things, to establish a way to help her to prolong her life with best programs
That’s, is a universally accepted
Removing a tumor is no longer an option
Again, I believe that (camcorder ?)

Yeah

So Hannah had radiotherapy, and you saw the scans after the radiotherapy, and, and what did you see ?

Ok
We decided, no Hannah decided to go through conventional pathways of treating of tumors, which is oncology medicine (?)
She had radiotherapy, which aim is to kill the remaining cells we have not been able to remove, remove in surgery

So, that happens, and Hannah had a shrinking stage of uh of things, with subsequent scans show the suc success
It was not much tumor
However, the remaining amount of cells were there from day one
We knew they existed, and they were visible on the scan
We could actually produce the scans later right ?

Yeah

And I will show you pictures of Hannah
And we knew there was (reserve ?) tumor
The aim of the radiotherapy was to try and kill these remnants of tumor that have remained behind
In her case, it was not much tumor left, because we know that subsequent scans were done following radiotherapy
Still the small areas of tumor highlighting halo were still here, as you, as a (?), as a reminder, of the main tumor

Inevitably those cells would progress again, to a further tumor, and usually, to a high grade tumor where the tumor progressed, normally is not rare, to see that they, scale one grade
So, the fear here with Hannah was get, this grade 3, would progress to grade 4 at some point
——————————————————————
Dr. Martinez on Dr. Burzynski (6:50)
——————————————————————
Quite obviously you knew that I did a lot of investigating

I looked for people in the world who were still alive, who had uh, this type of tumor

I spoke to you

You told me, of, some things uh, and I’d mentioned to you Dr. Burzynski

What did you

What did you think about that when I 1st mentioned it to you ?

Well, when you mentioned that to me I didn’t know Dr. Burzynski at all

I knew there were some people going to Houston for some therapy, among them, one well known Spanish singer, but she’s well known, very well known actually, going from a, from a another kind of tumor, not a, not a brain tumor
But I knew vaguely about this a, this a person in, in Texas, with his uh fancy treatment, challenging establishment, but, as I said, a little
amount of, of knowledge in my brain
in my brain
Well, I knew immediately when you mentioned that, as well as other options that we discussed, I looked at every option you’ve showed me, because you were really active in looking and intimate, in the literature
You gave me 2 or 3 main leads of reading, but certainly Burzynski came as the most solid one, because the rest of them you gave me were really experimental therapies, with little or no success, and uh more in my dimension but more imagination than technique, with them
So, I look at Burzynski’s story, and was almost immediately moved about, about his personal uh yearning
Is a person who has been, how many years now ?
20+ ?

30

30+, sorry, fighting against the very powerful medical establishment, and subjected to court judgments, to punishment by a, by a (?) community, to intense scrutiny, and uh, ostracized by the so-called uh conventional doctors
Despite that, 30 years + later, still doing his business, in fact, the most important thing, with a huge amount of people, smiling, alive, and very healthy following the diagnosis of the tumor
To me that was something revealing
No matter whether this man advocates, on praying to the moon, or going to the sea, (whatever it is ?)
The fact is the fact
He has a large # of patients, alive and well, following diagnosis of tumor
In fact, the most important, children, at the age of 3 or 4, being treated by this uh therapy, reaching 30’s, reaching 20’s, and alive, and very nice, this a living example, that this man, is not uh, selling air
Ok
For that I went to the films, available to everyone on the Internet, on YouTube, except the usual terms of communication
I dislike very much, they commit (?)
I really dislike it
But, I must admit it was a good way, to put the facts to the public
This way
The main criticism of Burzynski in the scientific community, is the lack of reliable communications
That, that’s a fact
I will not go into this during this interview, this chat

Yeah

Ok
Because I think it’s a matter for, further discussion
I only go to the physical facts that you can see
In the last court proceedings, there were a large # of supporters, saying, we are the living example, of this process isn’t pantomime (?)
Well I think in my humble microscopical opinion, Burzyn, Burzynski’s trying to do, is to show another way to treat cancer

Another way which directs completely from the current guidelines
The current guidelines are full of financial interests, are full of international agreements, and of course someone who attempts to upset this structure will face serious adversity
This man is brave enough to put his person, his family, his world, on the spot, to fight for the truth
To me, it’s clear
This guy, not going into details again, I don’t want to go into technical details today, because something for further discussion, but only the facts he’s presented, is strong enough to stop and think about it
That’s why, I would like to say, in the 1st instance

And obviously you’ve seen Hannah’s su, scans, and you saw her last scan, and you can see uh her

Well since you told me about this, I intense look at the Internet again, all the available evidence, I looked at his, uh, not publications but at his data
I, I have no peer-review qualifications yet, about Burzynski’s cases, but I look at practical cases
Too many, to be a random chance of, oh this is, she has a one in a million
No, it has, many ones in a million to be a chance
So this man is presenting something serious
So, I ask (?) (?)
Forced to do, because, I thought, ok, what you face here is a conventional radiotherapy, chemotherapy, but if you look at the #’s, that is again, in the public domain, people with grade 3’s, will not survive longer
Grade 4’s, do not survive longer
My duty as doctor is to tell the patient, the person with the grade 4 tumor, you have about 11 months to live without treatment
Be lucky
With treatment is unpredictable
(I don’t know ? or all along ?)
But the #’s are #’s
If you look at the data, people die very quickly from a grade 4
Grade 3, follows very closely
So I thought, there’s nothing to lose by this therapy, because #1 is not incompatible wha, with what you have been doing so far, and it gives you a chance to change perspective, to change environment
Go to a different setting, and try it
That’s a fact (?)
Plus the fact that many, many, many people are being treated (?)
under this guidance, and they are surviving very well, and they are alive

Mmm

Hannah’s case
When are you going to Texas ?

We went in December

December
Well you come back just a few days ago

We came back 3 weeks ago in January

So in that period Hannah had her tumor treated with antineoplastons, and there has already been a scan, which shows shrinking of 15%

Yeah

Is such a long, long journey, you have a nice little period, a month and a 1/2 maybe ?

Yeah

After so many months of punishment and suffering, and which have a nice (result ?)
Plus, the emotion of Hannah
Hannah has come back to normal, I think
I remember her very depressed and the beginning of story, and not having any single hope in her mind
I remember a video where she was crying
Now she has this chuckle in the video when she is joking about the scan, and so positive and optimistic, and the results cannot be more promising
That, in my view, (certain was seen ?) in detail, I think
——————————————————————
Hannah’s MRI scans (13:34)
——————————————————————
Take a look at this
This area of bright, intensity here, is not in the right, so poorly, is abnormal
And that was the 1st pictures we saw for Hannah
And some people said, that must be a stroke because of this a straight line there, and there
Normally, as a rule of thumb, something with a wedge shape, tends to be a stroke, because the vessel, providing blood, opens in the small vessels in a wedge fashion
It look a stroke to me actually, to, to be, to be honest, the very fact that we thought it was a stroke, but then we came to recognize it was a tumor, for all the features in (?)
So this is the 1st picture
If we look at the, on the side of the screen, we have now a different view
Instead of looking from the feet, we’re looking at front of Hannah
Eyes are here
That’s the brain
Left side
Right side
Look at the left side, because we know, the tumor’s (?) on the left
We look to go, deeper in her head, and we see, a dark area
It’s a different fashion (?) and that’s why you can see the white, becomes like a black
And you can see, the edges of this is strange, formation
Clearly abnormal because nothing there in the side
So this, was the question for the individual
What is it ?
So after a little bit of discussion we came to the conclusion that thought it was a glioma, tumor, from description, in the brain
So

This is after the operation

After the operation

Operation

This is the 17th through the 4th

Yep
We go on the right side better because this is the film
We see here something very clear
I want to get another view, so you understand a little bit better
Yeah, this
In this view, you can see
Can you see that ?

Yep

You can see the (?)
The chunk of bone, we take away, to go into the brain
And these are screws and plates, to keep things in place
2 screws, one little plate
And there, the other one
Ok ?
So this is the axis
Let’s put it on the right so you can see it better
Here, you can see it much better how the craniotomy is performed with one hole, one drill, to put the, the saw and drill away, and you can lift this cover
Ok ?
At the end of the operation we put this plates, one there, one there, one there, and one there, as you can see
2 little plates
2 little screws with one plate to fix the hole
Ok ?
And then, the skin itself
——————————————————————
The Future for the Treatment of Cancer (16:18)
——————————————————————
So, so how do you think uh brain tumors will be treated in the future ?

That’s a, that’s a very good question
Uh, certainly not this way
Let me give an answer for another time
But certainly not this way, because uh the chemotherapy, the main, the main group of chemotherapy is that, it is itself a killing agent
You are using, destructive element, to try and prolong life
In, in itself makes no sense to me
Of course, the, the argument for that from the, from the (chemical ?) companies, from the people who produce this (?), excuse me, this doctor, we are saving lives, and it’s true
This is the only way, officially admitted today, to treat tumors, chemotherapy

So do you think we’ll have a cure for cancer ?

I’m hope it is
I think it’s coming, actually, but uh, but uh, it’s not accepted

Then you think Dr. Burzynski’s really on to something ?

Definitely
The evidence is overwhelming
He’s not I think, the evidence
What I think is irrelevant
Oh my opinion is one opinion in, in millions of them
But if you look at the facts, Dr. Burzynski is achieving things
It’s not, it’s not promising
Is it
It’s the delivery of things
If, if I don’t understand it incorrectly
The head of our patients, he’s an ex-patient of cancer
Am I right ?
This girl had a brain tumor
Hannah was talking to people have been cured
So this is a fact
This is not tales
This is not uh, uh, selling, thin air
This man, whatever he’s doing, because of his story
Part of his secret agenda, the
chemicals (?)
be explained
I not asking for the patent of his things
I don’t, I don’t care anyway
But he’s working with compounds, with substances created by this man, that cure people

So why do you think more people aren’t receptive, to the, you know, other oncologists, neurosurgeons ?

That’s a very complex question because uh we are fighting against a very well established protocol of producing doctors that think in a very particular way
Who, whoever decides to direct from that way of thinking is in hot water
Invariably
The scientific community these days, is uh biased by peer-reviewed publications, commonly accepted guidelines, and there’s no space whatsoever, for any, eh, diversion from the norm
Put it this way
Ok
I’m not saying that I directed (?) from norm
I’m not here to argue the system, but I am here, to ask questions
I would like to ask questions
Why, we have to accept
I was in medical school, and I was told by a pediatrician, (?) of the (?) service, babies should a stop breast feeding at the month #4, and they start with these magic formulas for babies
At that, at that point I believed
At that point I was a very young medical student
I said, (?) the head of pediatricians tell me, my baby has to stop breast feeding, at the age of 4 months, must be true
He is a doctor, but he’s a stupid (doc ?
I am so sorry to disagree
He was delivering, a very nasty message
Basically you should continue, 2 years away, 3 years away, when the baby says, that’s it
Naturally stop the breast feeding
You understand what I mean ?
So, in the same fashion, the oncologist delivers the message that they have been taught, by the teachers
And then you go up in the scale
Ok
If you go up in the pyramid, the top of the pyramid is usually money, eh, economic interests, political interests, namely
We go outside the core mains of medicine
That’s why my complaint
That’s why my fight here
I would like to ask those things
I may be wrong, by at the end of the day
I may be
I don’t know
I don’t know all the answers
But if at the end of very good search, I am convinced that this is the only way, I say, I am sorry
I had to ask
Go back to the norm
But (?)
I totally suspect that the norm is wrong
There must be another way
======================================
http://www.neurokonsilia.com/About-Us.html
======================================

======================================

Pete Cohen chats with Sonali Patil, Ph.D., Research Scientist at The Burzynski Clinic

======================================
1/2012Sonali Patil, Ph.D., Research Scientist at The Burzynski Clinic
(18:22) 9/18/2012
======================================
So you, you, you’re a scientist here ?

I’m a scientist here

And, and you work, just with antineoplastons ?

Not necessarily
This is our cell biology lab, and in molecular biology we do basic research on the antineoplastons
Sometimes we also study it in combination with the other, uh, medicines that Dr. Burzynski is interested in
So, but mostly antineoplaston
This is looking at mechanism for action
Trying to understand how it treats the cancer cells, is able to kill the cancer cells without damaging the other cells of the body
So mostly antineoplaston is the target here

And what do you think about
antineoplastons ?

We have found, uh, very interesting, uh, molecular pathways targets that antineoplaston is targeting, working very effectively to kill the cells, um, probably better than many other drugs, because, um, it has multiple targets, and so attacks the cells from many different angles, and is able to kill the cancer cells, more effectively

So, can I ask you, how did you come to work in, th, the Burzynski
the institution ?

Through an advertisement, it was
My position was advertised
I started 8 years ago, and

So ok
So it was advertised

Mhmm

So when you applied for the job, were you aware of the controversy of, (comments to self: learn to talk)
So when, when did you find out ?

Uh, eh, as soon as I joined (laughing)

Oh yeah ?

Few months later
I thought, it’s easy to find
It’s not hard

Of course

It’s not even, uh

Wha, what about any of you other colleagues, that prior to coming here ?
I mean, did they say anything to you, like, you know ?

Well they brought something up
(?) in, uh, uh, being there for him during this trial, my boss, my previous boss was here before me
Uh, so I have a very open picture of it, and it doesn’t bother me
He came up against it and won

Yeah

So that’s a good thing

An, and why do you think, it kinda hasn’t been, kinda lost the word, hasn’t taken off, you know ?
Has the scientific community hasn’t really embraced ?

Well anything that is non-traditional always, you know, takes its own time to get to people
Besides, the traditionalists don’t want it coming out because, uh, it affects, a lot of other things, um, finance, in, in the big Pharma

Right

that is affected by this
So, um, if it, if it were, um, a medicine already with another big company, it probably would already be out in the market by now, but, uh, it’s because it’s one man’s show
He’s fighting against, uh, traditional medicine, big, big centers like M.D. Anderson right here in Houston
So, most people want to believe, uh, what the other doctors, the oncologists, are telling them, because that’s what everybody does
So very few filter out of that and come looking for him, because they’ve lost hope there, and they’ve tried everything else, and they come because; which I wish they wouldn’t, come here as a last resort, you know

Mmm

and, by then, sometimes, uh, enough damage has been done that is sometimes even he cannot cure
It’s not magic
It’s
There’s a logic to the way the medicine works
The science behind it is not, it’s not just a magic bullet
So, and you have to target it at the right time
Catch cancer at the right time

So I have a, friend of my mother’s at home, whose spent, her whole, academic career, 20, 30 years, researching, astrocytomas

Mhmm

And, uh, you know, I did my research, and, I was no doubt that we were coming here
No question
My, my research was more based on people

Excuse me

On people
Talking to people who had been treated, and seeing the results, and then looking at the research afterwards, and she was just saying that “I’ve spent all my years, research, and research, and research, I can’t find anything, that validates, this, this treatment
Now I’m not asking you to comment on what she said, but,

No, validation, validation basically means, uh, proof in scientific community
If you’re not accepted into the scientific community, you’re not going to be able to present that truth, and we go and present at conferences all the time, eh, when it comes to publishing papers, uh, we haven’t been very successful
Dr. Burzynski has published, uh, a lot of data of his patients
So it’s out there

Yeah

If you, if you want to believe it, and you’re looking for it, you’ll find it

Yeah

It’s just, um, it’s not in the mainstream places, because it gets rejected out of there
Um, it’ll probably take some time to get into those spots where everybody else is publishing, and everybody else is talking about it, but it doesn’t mean that it’s not true

So obviously you’re here on a daily basis
So when was the 1st

Last 8years

So the last 8 years
When was the 1st time you actually saw, was it in the dish where you actually saw it ?

Well we see it, we’ve seen it for years before I came here

Yeah, but when was the 1st time you saw it, when you came here yourself and you saw ?

Well we see it every day
Um, we have cancer cells in the lab, that we treat, with the medicine
We see them dying
We see them undergoing a necrosis, which is the cancer deaths, pathway, that most people study and talk about

So

So, it’s happening, it’s happening in front of our eyes everyday
So, we have proof for it
you know (?)
We just have to get it out there, and there’s a, there’s a system to all that

Um

and were trying to, get it through the system, and get it out there

So what, when you 1st realized there is something here, did you not just feel like just shouting from the rooftops and telling everybody?

Well I wasn’t the one who discovered
He did, in the ’80’s

Yeah

and since then he’s been shouting from the rooftop
It’s just, nobody would listen to him

Yeah, yeah

So, you know, we’re just doing the, uh, actually it’s backwards
People usually do, uh, pre-clinical research 1st, because the medicine

Mhmm

goes out and to the patients, and we, we are kind of doing it, the other way around
He already has patient data
He’s been treating people
on this
People, survivors walking around, to tell the story, and now we are being made to understand how it works in the cells
So, it’s, it’s kinda doing, the research, after the trials

Just tell me
One more question
What’s it like
How would you describe Dr. Burzynski ?

I admire his, uh, passion, for what he does
He truly believes in what he does, and to me that’s, that’s a big thing
If you don’t believe in yourself, then nobody else will, and, his memory
He, he has tremendous memory, and, uh, uh, quick thinking
He’s able to piece together stuff, uh, research articles, papers, put together puzzle, come up with a theory
He does that every day, every time I meet him it’s, it’s interesting to me to see how his brain works

you say, in, in the purest sense, he’s a scientist

I think he’s a doctor 1st, but a doctor who’s very, very interested in science, and that’s an important thing, because a lot of, uh, doctors don’t care about the research, and he does
I think, I think his primary aim is to treat patients, mostly

So if there were any type of skeptic, research scientist out there, what would you say to them about what goes on here?

We do, we do, everything that happens in any other lab, anywhere else
I went to school at Houston, ah, so, I know exactly how the labs work
We do exactly what they do

Yeah

Um, we try to write up our papers, and send them to the journals, just like everybody else does
Uh, present at conferences
We try to get our data out there
Um, we’re trying to do our best, just the way everyone else is

I, I suppise trying to do your best it, it, it’s fascinating because you actually have something

Yeah

that really, really does work

Mhmm

I mean, it’s a cure, right ?

We believe it is

It’s a cure for cancer
Not for all cancers
I actually asked Dr. Burzynski

Mhmm

I filmed him the other day and said to him, why do you, specialize in brain tumors ?

Mhmm

Do you know what his answer was ?

What was it ?

He said it’s because it’s the most difficult type of cancer

Well it is if, if you think about it
I don’t think there are many doctors who claim to have survivors, eh, at least in the numbers that he has, to present

Yeah

and, um, I hear that at conferences too when we, were standing around, they will look at the slides, eh, eh, which is a tumor, and they will say: “Well that’s not a tumor,” ye, “it’s just necrosis
It’s just a patch on the skin, and you just cured nothing, and”, uh, all the, “the patient was probably cured from, the therapy that he took elsewhere, you know, the radiation he got 10 years ago”
“That’s probably what cured him,” but, you know, th, those kind of patients will be rejected from other, hospitals, don’t survive, that far enough to, to tell a story

So what is it ?
Just people living in denial ?
Is it fear ?
Is it ?

Fear or denial
I’m going to do what everybody else does
Why, why should I go out and do something different, here ?
Yeah (?)

And, and lastly, you know the, the power the pharmaceutical companies have

Well of course
I mean, but I’m nobody to, comment about that

Yeah, yeah

You know
There’s, there’s a lot going on behind the scenes that we are not even aware of, but this is just what, um, my experience is, when I talk to other doctors at meetings and conferences, and they, you’re immediately dismissed as, oh, you know: “What you’re going to say doesn’t really make any sense because you work for, Dr.

His name has been tarnished
——————————————————————
There’s a lot more, to that, than just, people playing politics, this, this, a whole lot of stuff going on behind there
So, I don’t think it’s, it’s (supression ?) as much, it’s just trying to tell your story, uh, so that somebody would listen and accept it, uh, maybe using, the right channels, going, presenting it in a different way, make it more convincing
All that, would help

So if it, if it was you, in his position, would you not have just given up ?
Or would you

Oh, definitely
We all talk about it all the time, that the amount of determination that he has, most people, would back off and leave, but like I said, he believes in what he does, and that’s what keeps him going

Yeah
As far as publishing is concerned, ’cause a lot of scientist want to see

We’ve tried
We, we, don’t get past the initial screening
We repeatedly send it back to other journals and that’s the process I keep doing all the time
Comes back, I send it back to another journal
Hopefully, one day it will get it

So, let, let, let, let me get this straight, ok ?
You write articles, right ?

Papers

Papers

Mhmm

and you submit them to, medical journals

Mhmm

and then what happens ?

They come back

Why do they come back ?

Sometimes, um, if they get to reviewers, uh, it’s not enough data, or, which I understand
We can work on changing, modifying papers, but, many times they come back, without any reason
They just get rejected, at the 1st, screen itself
So they come back without any reason

And why do you feel that is, in your own humble opinion ?

Wha ? (laughing) not humble opinion
It’s, it’s hard, um, publishing is a tricky game, you know ?
You have to publish once, to get your name in there, and then, they might publish you again, but, uh, with the negative publicity that we already had, and most of the community would look at the name and say: “Oh we, we just don’t want to, want to even read it”
So, it, it doesn’t even get past the 1st screen, because they don’t turn, flip the 1st page even

Ok, so, what you’re saying is that you see things that are published in these journals

Oh yes

And, you see ?

very similar stuff
We try to, we try to do research that is on par, uh, with what everybody else is doing, as far as the techniques, the ana, the data analysis
We, we try to do everything which is the standard for, uh, the research community, but, doesn’t get past

Um, how frustrating must that be for you ?

Mmm, it is (laughing), it is

So do you feel like you’re a party, or you’re trying to get into a party, and knocking on the door, and no one’s letting you in ?

I feel like that at the conferences too because, um, sometimes they come up to your, poster presentations, and, um, they’ll ridicule you right there, while you’re standing there by your presentation

Ok, just last thing, because one of the things I heard

Mhmm

recently, which were, that, uh, there’s some evidence that Dr. Burzynski has from, from the phase 2 clinical trials, showing people who have, uh, glioblastomas who’ve been alive for 10 years

Mhmm

and there’s something there that they want to try and get published

Mhmm

What you’re saying is, that might never get published ?

Well, Dr. Burzynski’s case is different
He has published some of his patient data
I’m talking about the research, uh, the pre-clinical research, the cell culture data, the molecular data
Um, we haven’t had success getting that out, but, he has, he also faces rejection a lot, but he doe, he has managed to get ta, a few publications in

So how does it work ?
If, if you submit something they can
What’s the process ?
They can submit it back ?

That’s not, there’s a review
There’s a whole review board
Um, you can select your reviewers
It goes through couple of cycles of review before it’s, agreed that they will publish it
So,

And in case they say no to publishing it

You can

do you, can you take it somewhere else ?

Yeah, you can take it somewhere else, but, um, but it’s, the peer-reviewed journals that are the ones that you want to get into, you can publish whatever you want, ah, that doesn’t count
That’s why when, somebody who’s of, uh, any significance in science would not even look at those articles if they’re not in a peer-review journal
So, they have to get into a decent place to make a mark

Do you think that will happen ?
What do you think has to happen in order for ?

It’ll happen, in, in time
They can’t keep refusing you
We, we try again and again
——————————————————————
But in time they just want to, not focus on it, and just have’m, bring in more numbers, and keep doing this, and in the meantime keep treating, some number of patients
On, on, top of everything, my personal belief is, uh, brain tumors are not, uh, a money-raising factor, because it’s a, it’s a minority cancer
If this were treating, uh, mainstream cancers as they’re called, as, uh, breast cancer, maybe they would look at it more seriously, but the numbers, with the brain tumors, which is a good thing
I mean it’s a deadly cancer
You don’t want more people to have it, but, that puts it in the category of, um, you know, not so feasible, as far as the money-making
And so, the priority; even though, it’s the most vicious, and it should be looked at more seriously, but, it’s not the one that brings the big bucks

So

So, put it aside

So why would the FDA, haven’t closed him down then ?

Because they, they, uh, believe the data that he’s sending them so far, and they don’t have a valid point to, just say no, it doesn’t work, and put it away
They see effect, and so they want, more numbers, more data

Is it, it the phase 2 trial is finished ?

Mhmm

but they’re still accepting people ?

Yeah

on more like a special ?

Special basis, and, um, sometimes compassionate grounds

(compassion exception)

Uh, exceptions

That’s normal ?

Yes
So

(Yes I guess it is a funding issue ?)

Right

(Like FDA, during the 2nd phase of clinical trials they found the data to be, real, real one, and they gave him the ok to go for 3rd phase of clinical trials, but just to go through this process you would probably need $100,000)

(?) and that’s stalling

(even more, millions dol, millions of dollars, to go through the 3rd phase of clinical trials, and)

(?)

(he’s a single doctor
It’s a 1st case)

Yeah

(probably in American history)

It is

(that single doctor is trying, to get a his job)

Self-funded

(approval
Self-funded
Whatever you’ve seen on that plant, everything came out of his practice
So he was the one who funded, literally the, the, research and development phase, but those installation, operation, all this big plant was built ?)

Yes, ’cause, uh,

(private)

one of the things I hear a lot, I’ve heard slot in the U.K. is that: “Why is he charging people for clinical trials ?

Well, uh, how else would you run this place ?

Exactly
How will you run this place, and how else will people be on the trial, because

Right

you know, there’s no pharmaceutical company involved here, right ?

There’s nothing
Nothing
It’s all out of his pocket
Every single bit
So
And what is stalling (?) is (?) again is, is funds
Money

Yeah, I also heard that the phase 3 they wanna do radiotherapy with, with it

Mmm

Hopefully, that will not be the case, but

we’re trying to
I think, uh, he is trying to fight against that, but, the FDA is the FDA, so

And what do you think about this case, he’s now got coming up in April ?
You know, he’s got this court case

Well there’s always something

Yeah (laughing)

He, he’s won before, so

Yeah

Do you think he needs the support, do you think he feels the support from, from all of you ?

I think so, for sure

(Oh, absolutely)

Yeah

Nobody forced us to work here

(Ah-hah)

Yeah

We get paid, but, you know
I could always look for another job if I needed to (laugh)

Yeah
So would you stay here because you really believe in what’s going on here ?

(?)

(Yes, that’s one thing that’s unique about our operation, and I’m talking about this location is, uh, whoever joined the company; and we have a guys who joined the company in the 80’s, 90’s
They stay with the company
Turnover is zero)

Yeah

(Joined the company
Stays with the company
It’s a challenge)

Yeah

(It’s a (?) challenge for us)
======================================

======================================

September 28, 2013 “The Skeptics™” Burzynski discussion: By Bob Blaskiewicz – 2:19:51

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All comments by Professor Robert J. (Bob) Blaskiewicz of University of Wisconsin, Eau Claire “fame” should be considered as likely LIES until such time as he keeps his word to respond on this blog, to criticism of him on this blog
——————————————————————
“I hope somebody is writing all this down out there, so that we can go back and look at these claims later, right ?”
——————————————————————
1:19:00
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Seriously, Bob ?

Do you really think one of “The Skeptics™” was going to write all this down, when none of them showed that they had written down much of anything of much note about Burzynski 2 when they attended the screenings ? 🙂
——————————————————————
*Some words may or may not be missing, but it doesn’t take away from the final result
I will be adding separate critiques that break this down into manageable parts, but wanted to have entire video comments altogether here

——————————————————————
(0:04:38)
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Are you there ?
——————————————————————
Yes
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Okay, we might as well get started if were going to do this
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Okay
——————————————————————
(0:05:00)
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Alright, so ummm I guess we can start with uhhh bit of a conversation [0]

Uhhh

You’ve been on the Burzynski Hashtag for a long time – what’s you’re motivation ?
——————————————————————
Well as I put in my about page, I agreed with the juror that he was neither guilty or innocent [8]

So, so since I see all this opposition by these Skeptics, and I see that the they’re getting all of their facts straight

(Freudian sarcasm slip)

I decided to take the position of being a Skeptic Skeptic

In other words I am skeptical of Skeptics who do not fact-check their information before they post it on social media
——————————————————————
Okay
——————————————————————
And since I see ahhh y’all pretty much trying to take over the net with y’all’s information I decided to come back and correct all the false information that was being put out by other Skeptics
——————————————————————
So what information have Skeptics posted that they uhhh that they missed that demonstrates that Burzynski’s uhhh treatments are effective ?
——————————————————————
(0:06:00)
——————————————————————
What, what have we missed ?
——————————————————————
Well the major issue is that the FDA’s own information says if phase 3 trials are approved – phase 2 trials is to see if there’s evidence of effectiveness

And so if phase 3 trials are approved, that means you’ve provided evidence of effectiveness

That’s the FDA’s own information – I have that clearly on my blog [9]

Also the FDA has given Burzynski uhhh Orphan Drug Designation in 2004 for uhhh brainstem glioma and then in 2009 for all gliomas [10]

So that must mean that there is evidence of effectiveness, otherwise I don’t think they would be doing that

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0:07:00
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Well okay, uh one of the issues that Skeptics have with Burzynski is that in order to, let’s say, elevate uh the profile of his drug, in order to make sure that everybody who needs it can get, is to complete a phase 3 uh trial uh he started uh I believe was it just the one, right ?

Uhmmm, and that’s gone nowhere

In fact, it was withdrawn this I think within the last week

It doesn’t look like its going to happen, and this is, you know, for all the the phase 1 and phase 2 trials, those are very preliminary trials
——————————————————————
(0:08:00)
——————————————————————
Uhmmm, the phase 3 is is will be the gold standard, and also the bare minimum that that the larger medical community will accept uhhh as evidence, so it’s like you’ve lowered the bar for for evidence in a way that that you know oncologists don’t
——————————————————————
Well the issue is he was given 2 phase 3 trials that we know of

One was on uh Clinical Trials . gov – the one about eye cancer
——————————————————————
The the
——————————————————————
The vision cancer
——————————————————————
Right
——————————————————————
And then the other one was not posted on there, but then again the FDA has said, and I posted this on my blog because I specifically contacted and asked them and they said we don’t post all clinical trials on our web-site [11]
——————————————————————
(Correction: NCI)
——————————————————————
And so he obviously had that other one about brainstem glioma, that he was trying to get started [12]

But the other issue is that Skeptics have posted on there that he could not get that accelerated approval until he had published a phase 2 trial and that is exactly not the case because other drugs have been given accelerated approval before their results were published in phase 2 clinical trial publications, cuz, so that question remains as well [13]

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(0:09:00)
——————————————————————
9:13
——————————————————————
So, do you think that there is a uh uh conspiracy to keep Burzynski from publishing ?
——————————————————————
Well, what we do know is that in the movie, Merola showed that one page rejection from The Lancet
——————————————————————
Right
——————————————————————
where Burzynski was trying to show his results from like 8 to 16 years, and they said we think your uh publication would be seen best elsewhere, or some ridiculous statement like that

And so, I thought that funny of The Lancet [14]

20130930-164002.jpg
Of course, I understand their 2nd response, which came out, which Eric posted on his Facebook page, y’all, that y’all have talked about – that, you know, they’re busy, they get a lot of
submissions
——————————————————————
(0:10:00)
——————————————————————
I understand that, so obviously he would have to look for a different publication for both of those, things he’s trying to get published
——————————————————————
Clarification: Burzynski and Tsuda
——————————————————————
Right

So, uhmmm, as far as I understand it The Lancet, uhhh the the question of The Lancet publication ehhh is par for the course, that most people are, when they get a speedy rejection from a uh uh, uh journal, are actually uh grateful, because that means there allowed to go ahead and submit their material to another journal more quickly and get it out there

Uhm, but the reaction that we saw on the side of the Burzynski camp was that, see, they’ll never publish us
——————————————————————
(0:11:00)
——————————————————————
Uhm, which is, eg, taken as far as I can tell as evidence of a conspiracy or that his name is is poison uh I mean, I think it is, but uhmmm, that wasn’t indicated in the in the rejection letter in order to uh claim that it is is to go beyond the evidence which again we’re not really willing to do

So, uhmmm what is the the ration the the something that I think a lot of of a lot of The Skeptics have been curious about when it comes to your your your blog and your behavior on-line uhhh is that that that, that the format of your blog does not make sense to us, we don’t understand exactly what you’re trying to do with it

Could you kind of clarify that for us because it’s uhhh long and it’s it’s intense and there’s a lot of emotion behind it but we don’t understand exactly, what it’s supposed to mean
——————————————————————
(0:12:00)
——————————————————————
Well a lot of the time I’m making fun of y’all’s favorite oncologist, the way he words his blogs, and uhmmm I cite specifically from the FDA, from from the National Cancer Institute, from these other scientific sources, from scientific publications

I give people specific information so they can fact-check me, unlike a lot of The Skeptics who just go out there and say things and publish things on social media, they provide no back-up for their uhhh sayings

And so when I critique an oncologist or any other Skeptic I always provide source material so people can always fact-check me and I specifically said that people should fact-check everything ummm that the oncologist should say because he has, I’ve proven him to be frequently incorrect about his information and misleading
——————————————————————
(0:13:00)
——————————————————————
And so I’ve tried to add those things and allow people to search, on specific things like publications, or what I posted about The Lancet, or specifically about The Skeptics, or specifically about the oncologist

So whenever I see something posted new on Twitter, by y’all, sometimes I’ll check it out and sometimes I won’t, and sometimes I’ll comment on it
——————————————————————
Alright, ah have you read The Other Burzynski Patient Group ?
——————————————————————
I was, on there just yesterday to see some more of your post on there [15]
——————————————————————
So, ahmmm what is your response say to the story of Amelia Saunders ?
——————————————————————
Well the thing is, when you accepted this hangout, I published my newest blog article and I specifically listed all the information I had critiqued from you previously including Amelia, and I posted the specific Twitter responses by BurzynskiMovie; which is probably Eric, to your issues with Amelia, and he disagrees with what the oncologist posted, and so I pretty much let his Twitter responses stand to what the oncologist said [2]
——————————————————————
0:14:24
——————————————————————
Okay, what part of, what did I get wrong ?
——————————————————————
Well I also did a critique of the newspaper story that was put out about Amelia in the U.K. [16]

And they had 2, 2 patients that were dealt with

And
——————————————————————
Uh was that Amelia and Luna ?
——————————————————————
I believe, yes
——————————————————————
Luna was the other one, correct [17]
——————————————————————
And one of the patients, Burzynski has specifically published in one of his scientific publications that maximum dosage is not reached for a month
——————————————————————
0:15:00
——————————————————————
So if someone, so if someone only goes in there and has treatment for a month, they’re not even, you know, they’re finally going to reach the uh maximum dosage [18]

20131015-200045.jpg
And I think that was maybe the case with Luna, I think she was only there for a month

Oh, I, you’re talking, oh this is one of the very 1st ones that we did on the, on the site

Uhmmm, oh, her name is, her name escapes me at the moment

Um, but she wasn’t there for for very long but uh her condition deteriorated very rapidly

Uhmmm, and one of the questions that we had, we raised, is is, you know, you you don’t need to reach full dosage ’cause the the full dosage for these ANP seem to be pretty high, at least the sodium load that that that patients are asked to to carry, or required to carry if they they go on it

And we wondered if the sodium load was ah to great for someone who has a brain tumor, I mean uh, you know uh sodium load will increase your blood pressure, and these people have extra things in their brains that probably won’t react well to swelling, right, and and wont react well to pressure, so we were wondering, if in fact you don’t have to reach the full dosage in order to have uh severe side effects
——————————————————————
(0:16:00)
——————————————————————
Ummm, you know maybe you haven’t reached a therapeutic dose level, but that doesn’t mean that it didn’t have an effect on her

And you can clearly tell, that, you know in the videos, well at least the videos before the family took it down, that she was lethargic and a little bit out of it, she uh the the difference in her conscious state was no noticeable for anyone to see

Ummm, to, you know where she had been up and about to in her bed kind of slurring and and, and and and, in fact just disoriented, just looked like someone had taken the piss out of her
——————————————————————
0:17:00
——————————————————————
I mean, ummm, so that’s, that one, ummm, you know the critique that, reaching therapeutic levels and having a biological effect on someone are are clearly different things in her case

Uhmmm, now I never went on you know on to say ummm that uh she had uh reached therapeutic levels

Uhmmm, I I think as far as I went was that she went, she paid her $30,000 dollars and then she died

Uhmmm, and and and what part of that’s not true
——————————————————————
Well my only thing is, uh, we know that sometimes he will go to a maximum dosage, or you know, the suggested dosage, but he will back down off it, in fact in the uh adverse effects you mentioned those are specifically adverse effects mentioned in his publications, and when that happens normally they will subside within 24 to 48 hours is what it says once you take them off the treatment and let, you know, those conditions take care of themselves, and then you will slowly raise the medication again [19]

20131015-201656.jpg
0:18:33
——————————————————————
So, you know, it just didn’t tell, if only one month of treatment was enough to even start to do anything for her [20]
——————————————————————
Okay, so, um, going back to Amelia, um, some of the the most um I think the most serious charges is that we see a uh repeatedly in his uh uh stories of his patients, um those are all cited, those are all backed uh by, you know, um at least as good as anything the Burzynski Patient Group has ever done
——————————————————————
0:19:11
——————————————————————
Uhmmm, something that we see over and over are patients reporting over and over that signs of getting worse are signs if getting better

Um, in particular a, uh report that’s very common from from patients is that the center of their solid tumors are breaking up

One of the problems that we we we see is that that is more frequently a sign of ischemic necrosis that the tumor has outgrown its blood supply and that it’s dying on the inside

And when you see something like a 5th of the patients who we’ve been able to to document, reporting this excitedly, we get extremely concerned about what’s happening
——————————————————————
0:20:02
——————————————————————
Uhmmm, what part of that is not absolutely terrifying to you
——————————————————————
Well the thing is, the FDA has approved phase 3 <strong[12]and also given them the Orphan Drug Designation, which means they should have some knowledge about what’s going on, I would think [10]

Plus we don’t know for sure, we’ve heard about, ummm, some of the things supposedly the oncologist has talked about, which is cutting off the blood flow, to the tumor, which is something that some uhhh drugs can do, and I think that’s one of the things Burzynski has tried to do, ah he’s specifically mentioned it in his personalized treatment

But I don’t know for sure if it’s also something that’s done with the ANP’s in just the clinical trials environment
——————————————————————
0:20:02
——————————————————————
So, that could be a possibility
——————————————————————
Well, the the yeah I’ve never seen anyone say that the purpose of the antineoplastons is to cause uhhh, you know, to restrict the blood flow to the tumor and and and uh cause it to die that way, which is certainly one therapeutic approach that’s been, that’s been floated and research has been done on uh and might even be promising and uh what he’s saying is that cancer is caused by a lack of antineoplastons in the system and that basically what he is doing is antineoplaston uh uh supplement therapy uh rath, what’s the word I’m looking for, uhm uh, replacement therapy

Uh and there isn’t a doctor on the planet, uh not a medical specialist on the planet, who, I, who has identified at at as a contributing factor as a contributor to cancer or antineo or lack of antineoplastons

So
——————————————————————
Well
——————————————————————
Why isn’t he, you know, you understand that these doctors, ummm like nothing is true or false because a doctor says it is true or false
——————————————————————
0:22:26
——————————————————————
Uhmmm it’s it’s it but when the entire medical community uhhh who are des are desperately are are every bit as tired of seeing patients die uhmmm and seeing patients suffer or as anyone else’s families are you you imagine what an oncologist sees in that office over the course of of a year and there’s going to be unimaginable suffering

I’m sure that they’re tired of that

And that they would, you know, that if there was the slightest hint that antineoplaston deficiency was a cause of cancer that it would make it into the literature, with or without Burzynski
——————————————————————
0:23:10
——————————————————————
Uhhh ummm, why should we trust him when he has uh the sole uh the only person who had identified antineoplastons as a contributor to cancer when he is the sole manufacturer of the of the therapy uh when he is the uh sole prescriber of the therapy and when he is, where the sole distributor of the therapy from his pharmacy
——————————————————————
Well what I find interesting about these other doctors is like like the doctors mentioned in the movie and BBC Panorama’s report and in some of these newspaper articles where they are mentioned again is that these doctors never do a review of Burzynski’s scientific publications and including our favorite oncologist who refuses to do so [20]

Uhhh [21]
——————————————————————
0:24:10
——————————————————————
He’s read everything

I think
——————————————————————

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Oh yeah he says he’s read everything but uh you know he claims that he’s uhmmm reviewed, reviewed uh Burzynski’s personalized gene targeted therapy but he, but then just a few months ago he admitted, you know, I don’t know where Burzynski says which genes are targeted by antineoplastons [22]

20131015-205255.jpg
And I pointed out which specific publications that Burzynski published, publications which specifically mention which genes are targeted by antineoplastons, and I said how can you claim that you’ve read and reviewed every Burzynski publication and you didn’t know which genes are targeted by antineoplastons when that’s specifically in the publications ? [10]

To me that tells me that you do not know how antineoplastons work be because you just admitted you don’t know which genes Burzynski talks about

I mean that’s just funny as heck to me that he would say that
——————————————————————
0:25:07
——————————————————————
Can you go ahead and send me that link that that I saw in the chat that you had uh posted a couple of times in the chat

Could you send me that link, to that publication

I can give you a minute to to go find it if that’s
——————————————————————
Well I’ve, I’ve got it on my blog

Uhm

I mean I can forward it to you at some point
——————————————————————
That would be good

Uhmmm
——————————————————————
But I agree with you about I don’t remember seeing anything about antineoplastons cutting off the blood flow to the, you know the blood brain barrier for sure either
——————————————————————
Well, yeah that’s a, that’s you know one of the major problems that this this cancer has is the location is such a pain to get to

Uhm, and often when we are talking about these cancers, the thing that gets me over and over and over, and this is something that I’ve learned from from working uh with others on the Burzynski Patient Group is what’s it like to be a cancer patient, only by proxy, man I couldn’t imagine really going through this myself, and, you know I’d hate to see my family go through this
——————————————————————
0:26:22
——————————————————————
That these people are at what could be described as a low point, they’re um uhhh, you get a diagnosis of uh brainstem glioma the prognosis is very bad

Uhmmm, there are only a few cases of people recovering from that, I mean they’re there uhm uhhh but, you know that it’s an, it’s an extremely grim prognosis

Uhhh and I worry that when they’re in that desperate state and especially let’s talk about the children, you have these kids who are uh you know 2 and 3 and have had this, you know uh awful diagnosis and the parents are willing to do literally anything to keep their kids alive
——————————————————————
27:16
——————————————————————
What protections are in place for patients as far as that these kids are and and their parents are protected
——————————————————————
0:27:30
——————————————————————
Well I think i know the point that you’re getting at uhhh about the IRB’s and all that good stuff

All I can say is that, you know the FDA can come in with any amount of investigators and say that you did this or that but you have the opportunity to respond, and so they can pretty much say anything, it’s only when the final report comes out that you can take that to the bank

And so all this speculation about what a investigative team may say about the clinic is, to me just like someone going into a lawsuit and saying so-and-so did this, you know, can you prove that, you know, did so-and-so do that [23]
——————————————————————
0:28:09
——————————————————————
So it’s the same thing with the FDA, these um little reports, the final report is what counts, and so, also what I find interesting is some of Burzynski’s publications specifically said, you know this particular uh clinical trial, the IRB was agreed upon by the FDA [24]

Well if if the FDA agreed upon it, you know, then some questions should arise about exactly what did the FDA agree upon

What would we find out from a Freedom of Information Act request on that ?

And, and what I also found interesting is when I did research on other clinical trials for brainstem glioma I found, you know, all these other science based medicine studies where 374 children had died in their studies [25]
——————————————————————
0:29:00
——————————————————————
And what I found interesting is back in 1999, they reported on a clinical trial, they had better results then all these clinical trials afterwards [18]
——————————————————————
Who had the better results ?
——————————————————————
Well, I would have to find you one, there were like 3
——————————————————————
Okay
——————————————————————
There were like 3 major ones that Burzynski has mentioned in his publications to cross-reference his trials versus their trials as far as the results

And so, I, there was one back in 1999 that had better results than a lot of these clinical trials that come afterwards

So when we talk about, you know, what’s really right for the patients well we can see that the drug companies want to test their drugs through clinical trials and, you know, and if your kid dies, well, unfortunately the kid dies

Even though we showed better results in 1999 with a different type of treatment, you would have thought that maybe they would have poured more investment into that particular treatment but that’s not necessarily how the clinical trial system works
——————————————————————
0:30:00
——————————————————————
Hmmm, yeah, the, Guy Chapman has just um uh tossed in a a, a comment

I guess uh that there are a lot of people who wanna talk to you (laughter)

Uh, Guy Chapman has just jumped in and said it looks like you forgot the phase 3 trial is withdrawn and none of the phase 2 trials were published

Uhmmm, this, this is not a minor thing for for for Skeptics

This, this is exactly what will convince us to get on board the Burzynski train is the publication of these trials

But even the preliminary trials, one has been finished, and none has been published in its entirety for over 15 years

When you consider that this is a, as you just pointed out, this is a a cancer, the, especially the brainstem gliomas

That these cancers uh the cases resolved fairly quickly, we know what the outcome are fairly quickly
——————————————————————
0:31:00
——————————————————————
Ummm, do you have any sense of when these trials are going to be published ?
——————————————————————
Well here’s my point, I mean, y’all probably get a better sense from, ummm, Hymas, about what’s going on with that
——————————————————————
From Laura ?
——————————————————————
From her uh fiancé, or husband, whatever his status happens to be right now (laugh)
——————————————————————
Right
——————————————————————
And uh also from Ric, uh they’re more closer to Burzynski than I am, because I have never met Burzynski, I have never e-mailed Burzynski, uhmmm never talked to Burzynski, never met him, blah blah blah

Uh, my sense is that since 1996 when the FDA talked about antineoplastons, that specific FDA Commissioner that was in charge at the time, he set out 7 major points about how there was going to be less people required and there was going to be less paperwork, there was going to be less stringent things about Partial Response [26]
——————————————————————
0:32:07
——————————————————————
And so, to me, the FDA is the final source to go to when people want to complain about how long their trials have lasted uh because the FDA is bottom line, you know, in charge of that

And
——————————————————————
When you, when you think about a major, sorry, go ahead
——————————————————————
And my other point is that, uhmmm, when these trials finish, as I’ve pointed out on my blog, M.D. Anderson finished a trial in 2006 and didn’t publish the results electronically until January of this year [27]

So, just think

Burzynski’s 1st trial we know that finished in 2009

So we would still have more years to go before he caught up to M.D. Anderson as far as publishing

So for him to actually be trying to publish stuff now and The Lancet not publishing because they have other stuff to do, put in there, that’s understandable
——————————————————————
0:33:03
——————————————————————
So, we know that he’s trying to publish, uh but they’re going to keep it close to the vest obviously, from, from how they do their things, and where they’re trying to publish

And plus, like I’ve said before
——————————————————————
Yeah, right, uh
——————————————————————
We’ve still got the accelerated approval thing that’s out there, you know, like the FDA’s given Temodar and, and Avastin, and another drug, whereas they’re not doing the same thing for antineoplastons, eve even though for all intents and purposes from what we know, antineoplastons have had better success rates than Temodar and Avastin when they were approved [13]
——————————————————————
Antineoplastons has a better rate ?
——————————————————————
Well from the information that’s been published in certain um publications
——————————————————————
Right
——————————————————————
And in, and in not only Burzynski’s but elsewhere in, in newspapers or articles, or such like that
——————————————————————
Right, one of the things that that there there are 2 points to be made here

Uhm, the 1st one is that major pharmaceutical companies that are getting this accelerated approval have a track record of producing results which Burzynski does not have

Secondly, when it comes to ummm the rates of antineoplastons, how can we possibly say without a single published trial he, that he has an improved rate over Temodar or anything like that, and that’s exactly what would show to us whether or not his rate is better, the the types of publications that he’s done, that look really good on paper, ummm, to the to the, the common persons eye are these case series where he goes through and picks out people who have happened to have survived
——————————————————————
0:34:47
——————————————————————
But what that doesn’t tell us is whether or not the antineoplaston had anything to do with it

What you need to do is go and separate the background noise, the random weird rare but very real survive, unexpected survivals that occur, and separate those, uhhh, from any effect of antineoplaston, he’s never done that
——————————————————————
0:35:10
——————————————————————
Well what I found interesting is when the FDA approved these other 1 or 2 drugs, some of them specifically said that, uhhh, some of these drugs had, you know, better survivability or they showed no better rate than any previous treatment but we’re approving it anyway [13]

Basically that’s what the publication said and I published this on my blog in an article specifically about, you know, those 2 or 3 drugs that the FDA approved for brainstem or brain related cancers [28]

And so, you know, I’m not going to buy that argument about that, about that specific thing
——————————————————————
But if you think about that, I mean that if it does have a a an improvement rate above uh other treatments
——————————————————————
0:36:03
——————————————————————
That still has an improvement rate, you know, that, that would give another option to people, ummm, even if in the aggregate their rates aren’t better

It might work on some individuals tumors rather than on, you know, you you it it is it taken as a, as a lump but extend life by uh quality of life for 3 months or something um in some cases but, you know, it it still has an effect, a real effect, and deserves to be out there
——————————————————————
Well one of these newspaper articles specifically said, you know, Avastin would maybe keep you alive for maybe 4 more months

So, you know, take that [2]
——————————————————————
That’s a long time when someone is dying
——————————————————————
Well, we can wonder if some of Burzynski’s results are the same, otherwise why would the FDA say, you know, give the ODD [10], why would the FDA give the phase 3 approval [12]
——————————————————————
0:37:02
——————————————————————
Plus I don’t buy some of these doctors coming out and saying stuff, they have the opportunity just like the other doctors in Egypt [29], in Russia [30], in Germany, in, in Poland [31], in China [32 – 33], in Taiwan [34] that have done antineoplaston studies, I’m like, these people can do antineoplaston studies so what’s the excuse for all these other doctors who say that they supposedly can’t do them

You know, the information’s out there and
——————————————————————
Well, one of
——————————————————————
and like these other doctors can do it
——————————————————————
One of the problems that that doctors have in in this country when it comes to doing ummm antineoplastons studies to verify any any effect that uh Burzynski has uhhh I i think back to the one where people say well that the FDA sabotaged his trials, and
——————————————————————
Well, we kind of know that that’s a fact [35]
——————————————————————
Clarification: NIH, NCI, and the Investigators
——————————————————————
Well, if if you think about it though, um, the, the proposed action as I understand it of the antineoplaston is that it’s a deacetylase inhibitor, which slightly unspools DNA, that allows uh, which would allow uh proteins to get into a pair of damaged DNA

And we have drugs that do that which carry a much lower sodium load

Uh, um, it, that would have a therapeutic effect on and that the risks outweigh the possible benefits of using this one particular drug

Um, I’ve seen any number of people looking at um, if you look at the Luna ah Pettiguine uh uh story on The Other Burzynski Patient Group um you see that the doctor is absolutely horrified by the insane sodium load that that Burzynski’s patients are carrying

Um in in some ways that that sodium load is uh leading people to constantly drinking up to I’ve seen 12 liters of water a day
——————————————————————
0:39:11
——————————————————————
That’s not necessary for other deacetylase inhibitors

Um the, why would you prefer that to to another drug if it did essentially the same thing, that didnt have this massive side effect ?
——————————————————————
Well what we know from 1996 from Burzynski’s own information that he’s published, is that not only does he have the original parent antineoplastons, but he’s developed 2nd and 3rd generations, but he can’t just stop in the middle of his clinical trial and use the 2nd and 3rd generations which may be better [36]

(Clarification: 1997)

He can't uh use these other types of um antineoplastons that other researchers, researchers like Egypt [29], or Japan [37] have found um that may be better because he can’t just switch in the middle of the clinical trial
——————————————————————
0:40:04
——————————————————————
Now if he, if the FDA approves his product, well then, maybe he can roll out the 2nd and 3rd generation and these other types of antineoplastons that may be less harsh, but that’s all he’s got to work on and that takes us back to the FDA, having control over the entire process, as far as the paperwork, how many people are in the trials, etcetera
——————————————————————
Well that sss I believe that that’s proposed by the researchers, the design trial, you know they they sign off on it but that is is, is up to uh Burzynski uh my uh David James @StortSkeptic on the [38]
——————————————————————
Right
——————————————————————
ah he has asked everything that Burzynski does looks sort of like the behaviors of pseudo-science
——————————————————————
0:40:56
——————————————————————
So what we’re saying uhhh he does uh uhhh Burzynski like for instance like I said he has vertically integrated, ah, he controls all parts from identification to the creation of the drug uh to the diagnosing uh well he doesn’t do the diagnosing but he does um um prescribe and distribute, he does all that vertically, which is actually something that snake oil salesmen do
——————————————————————
0:41:32
——————————————————————
Another thing that that’s a red flag in Skeptic circles is that his one compound seems to be a sort of panacea for all sorts of different types of, of of cancers, um where we know that cancer has a a varied uh, uh, ideology and and the uh panaceas are are are to be and a variety of different types of causes um, in fact in any one tumor you would, you could say that these, these tumors are are completely uh heterogenous

The idea that there’s gonna be one knockout, it seems rather unrealistic

Um, additionally he charges immense amounts of money for this drug, um, even though the components cost pennies

Um, on top of that, um, there’s something that he asks for a a huge payment up front
——————————————————————
0:42:33
——————————————————————
That’s something that’s been warned against for generations of uh by anti-quack um uh crusaders if if they’re asking for everything up front, then be afraid

Ummm, another thing is that uh the kind of cult that’s sprung up around Burzynski, uh, one that is immune to uh criticism, reason, and pits people who are doing standard cancer research, as enemies, um, creating a black and white version of the world where there are good people and there are bad people
——————————————————————
0:43:15
——————————————————————
There are people who are fighting the disease, and then there are people who are really helping the disease

I mean, if you look at the, the new web-site by the Burzynski patients fighting back group, they say support the cure not the cancer

That’s a manikin world-view of black and white
——————————————————————
0:43:30
——————————————————————
Um, these are all huge red flags, that you’re dealing with a quack

Um, why hasn’t Burzynski done anything to change that ?
——————————————————————
Well I find it interesting that you talk about the cost, because I’ve done a lot of research about the cost, and I was just looking at the cost again this morning, and put it into that particular blog article I was talking about, that I did for this particular program [39]

And, um
——————————————————————
0:44:00
——————————————————————
The thing that’s funny is that people can say, ohhh Burzynski charges a lot, but the fact is, so does chemo, radiation, and some of these newspaper articles that have been published, and specifically in the movie, Burzynski 2, one of the people mentioned how much someone was paying for standard treatment

And I noticed our
——————————————————————
Right
——————————————————————
favorite oncologist didn’t comment about that in his movie review [40]
——————————————————————
Well, there, this is important

This is really important though

Wha, when she’s talking about, that’s Luna Pettiguine’s mother, is is talking about the costs there

Uhmmm, you, when someone is not insured in in this country,

Ahm, the, the the base cost that that’s calculated is, is the hospital only expects to get a fraction, a tiny fraction of that back from the insurance companies, and that’s why the costs are so inflated

Um, usually, when a patient is self-pay there is a self-pay price which is a more reasonable price
——————————————————————
0:45:01
——————————————————————
Additionally, all of those therapies, have demonstrated efficacy, and if Burzynski were to demonstrate his efficacy, $30,000 dollars to start on a life-saving treatment for a child would be a steal, and he would earn every nickel of it

Um, so, those arguments hold very little weight with us
——————————————————————
Well what I find interesting, you know, I’m not sure how people think he’s supposed to pay for the clinical trials, you know, if he’s supposed to go into debt, millions of dollars
——————————————————————
He has a a an enormous house that’s valued in the tens of millions of dollars, he could do that if if the other, the other thing he could do, and this, we would love to see him do this, wousa, would be apply to Federal grant

That, that would be amazing, if he could get a grant to study this stuff

But, you know, um, I I don’t think he’d be able to get one, I don’t think he’s shown uh that he can carry off a uh a research program responsibly
——————————————————————
0:46:08
——————————————————————
Uhmmm
——————————————————————
I find that funny considering the FDA approved phase 3, has given him ODD for brainstem glioma and also also all gliomas [12]

You know, that’s kind of ridiculous [10]

And the people
——————————————————————
Well
——————————————————————
gettin’ off about his house, well who cares ?

They don’t know where his money came for that particular source
——————————————————————
(Clarification: “They don’t know the particular source where his money came from for that house”)
——————————————————————
Oh he, have you noticed the the, the thing on his web-site where if you make a donation to the clinic it goes directly to him ?
——————————————————————
Well, you know, when you have good tax lawyers your tax lawyers will tell you how to structure things, and everybody in America has the right to structure their taxes in a manner that effectively serves them according to our Supreme Court

So, if you have a tax lawyer who tells you, hey this is the best way to do it, to save money, well, you may do that uh based upon your lawyer’s advice
——————————————————————
0:47:00
——————————————————————
So, maybe Burzynski has taken his tax lawyers advice, just like I’m sure he’s taken Richard Jaffe’s ad advice (laugh), which has proved well, for him
——————————————————————
Right
——————————————————————
You know, you know

That’s another thing
——————————————————————
Ummm, o-kay

Uh, I want to turn this over to the people who are watching

Um, I want to give them a a chance to address you as well

Uhmmm, hi everyone

Uhmmm, so, um, let’s, let’s wait for for that to roll in, and I do wait to go back to the, the the, the and let’s be very specific about this, the the things that you see on The Other Burzynski Patent Group, a patient reporting that um uh getting worse is getting better

How do you explain that ?
——————————————————————
0:48:00
——————————————————————
Well I guess we could ask, you know, Ben and Laura Hymas [41]

What was their experience, you know ?

Did they have, did she have to drink uh a lot of water because she was thirsty ?

You know, did she have to drink a lot of water due to the high sodium ?
——————————————————————
Well that’s just a known side-effect, your going to know that going in, but we actually have people say
——————————————————————
So I would ask her about her personal experience instead of saying, you know, instead of quoting some of these other people
——————————————————————
Are there, why why why not, these people, see this is the thing though

The reason that site was started was because the people that don’t make it don’t have a voice

And when you, when you whittle away, when you only look at the at the, the positive outcomes, which is exactly in Burzynski’s favor to only look at the positive outcomes, and to have no sense of how other people’s diseases progressed, right, you’re gonna get a skewed and inaccurate version of the efficacy of this particular drug

Now lets lets lets go back and not talk about Laura, lets talk about these patients who report symptoms of getting worse, as if they were signs of getting better

Some people say that oh it’s a healing crisis or it’s progression of the disease

Or other people say it’s breaking up in the middle, hurrah
——————————————————————
0:49:20
——————————————————————
No, it’s actually a tumor that’s growing

That record there, that’s being left by patients, whose stories are every bit as important as the as the stories of the patients who have lived, are painting a completely different picture

How do you explain that ?
——————————————————————
Well we all know the FDA is in charge of this, and so hopefully they know what’s going on
——————————————————————
Are they feeding these people their stories ?

Are they feeding these people their stories
——————————————————————
No, I’m sure the FDA can look at the records because Burzynski sent them 2.5 million pages according to our friend Fabio [42]

20131015-215557.jpg
0:50:00
——————————————————————
And uh, you know just something the doctors who came in and did the little ol’ one day, 6 patient records, where they reviewed all the records and slides, and MRI’s, etcetera, you know they can do the same thing, the FDA can do the same thing with all these patients [35]

(Clarification: 7)

And see the same MRI’s and scans, etcetera

I mean, we, we know that with all these 374 children I mentioned dying in other science-based medicine clinical trials [25]

I mean, they, FDA probably went through all their records

And, so, all these people didn’t look good either but, you know, the FDA still gave approval to Avastin and Te Temodar even though a lot of people died in their clinical trials [25]
——————————————————————
Okay I’m going to go back, I want to point something else out to you

Um, I have to, I don’t remember the exact patient so I have to go back to my web-site to take a look at it

Um
——————————————————————
0:51:00
——————————————————————
Because we are, because we’re on a Google+ stream that that’s a lot of data it takes awhile to bring up my, my site

Let me

Uhmmm
——————————————————————
I mean, we could agree that since Burzynski’s publication says that it’s going to take a month to get up to required dosage, and so we know, the tumor can still grow, like he said, up to 50%, he specifically acknowledges that in his publication, so, we know that can happen [43]
——————————————————————
0:51:35
——————————————————————
Well, that seems to give him an instant out, no matter what happens

That turns his claims into something that’s unfalsifiable

If I could give you an example of what unfalsifiable is

Um, and I’ll I’ll draw an uh, uh, case, uh hypothetical case of um uh proposed by Carl Sagan as the invisible dragon in your garage
——————————————————————
0:52:00
——————————————————————
If you say you have have a dragon in your garage, um, you know, you should be able to go over and verify that there’s a dragon in the garage

So let’s say we go over to Carl Sagan’s garage and, you know

Well, I don’t see anything

Well it’s an invisible dragon

Well okay, well then, let’s uh spray paint it

Well, it’s incorporeal

Well, uh, let’s measure for the heat of the breath

Well it’s heatless flame that it breathes

And, you know, okay, well then we’ll put flour down on the ground to see that it’s it it’s standing there

And, oh no it’s ah it’s floating

Well, you know, at some point, when you can’t falsify something

When you cannot, even in principle, prove something false, it’s indistinguishable from something that’s not there

And that kind of out, that oh well the tumor can keep on growing

Th (laugh) that that that’s an invisible dragon, as far as I can tell
——————————————————————
0:53:00
——————————————————————
Well we know from his own publications, he says he can’t just go in and start giving the maximum dose, or recommended dose right off the bat because a particular condition will occur, and he specifically mentions, in the publications what that condition is, I don’t remember it right off the top of my head [20]

But then again, his 2nd generation, his 3rd generation, his other form of antineoplastons that may work in the future, if approved, well those could possibly (not) have the same uh adverse effects that the current parent generation have [36]

But we don’t know, and like I said the FDA I’m sure knows because they have all the records, we don’t have them, and so unlike our favorite oncologist I’m not going to speculate, about what the FDA knows and I do not know
——————————————————————
A every time that I and and and and , and David points this out, that um, you you know your not going to speculate about the the FDA but then at every turn your invoking the FDA as being obstructionist
——————————————————————
0:54:02
——————————————————————
I, I just find that to be contradictory and and self-defeating

Um, let me see
——————————————————————
Well we know they stopped this particular trial, supposedly because a patient died

So what’s the hold-up ?

I mean, hopefully they’ve done an autopsy

What was found
——————————————————————
Well, that’s not necessarily true
——————————————————————
No
——————————————————————
I mean uh when it when it comes to the case um I’ve i’ve talked to oncologists about this

And when it comes to uh for instance in in this case it sounds like it was a pediatric patient who was dying, ummm, who had died, ummm, the,
the 1st inclination is to ascribe the death to, um, to the tumor, which actually, would be to Burzynski’s benefit if there were other cases, I’m not saying there were, but if there were other cases where this type of complication arose, and it was ascribed to the tumor they might well not do it, uh, do an autopsy

——————————————————————
0:55:08
——————————————————————
Um, it’s ah as you could imagine it could be very difficult for the families to do that especially when they have ooh ah, a possibility of what, you know, led to the ultimate demise, that didn’t involve them ultimately somehow being responsible for it, right?

So, it it it doesn’t seem to me that necessarily an autopsy would be um a a done deal

Um, let me see
——————————————————————
And we don’t have a final report from the FDA on what the findings were
——————————————————————
No we don’t and it would be irresponsible to completely speculate on on, on, the outcome of that uh, uh, uh, individual patient, I am still scrolling through looking for this story that I wanted to talk about
——————————————————————
0:56:00
——————————————————————
Uh, and, I guess I’ll

It should be in Amelia’s I I, I packed Amelia’s story with all the stories, um, that I could find um in what we’d written up already

Um

Hold on a sec

She is a cute kid though

Um, alright

Now, our favorite oncologist (laugh), as you keep putting it, um, uh, with with the Amelia story, um, uh, was able to correctly determine that the Saunders family, had a, did not understand the significance of this cyst that had opened up in, uh, that had opened up in the center of the tumor, in fact they were ecstatic

They were delighted

Um, the family, of Haley, um, S, also
——————————————————————
0:57:10
——————————————————————
Uh, the the family of Haley S., also, had the same reading given to them

Um, the same diagnosis uh same prognosis was to, was given to Justin B in 2006

A similar cyst in Lesley S’s story uh ah, was in 2006

Um, and that kept her on uh treatment for a a another month so that could be another $7,000 some odd dollars

We same thing in the, in the case of, uh, Samantha T in 2005

We see it again as far back as 1994, in Cody G’s story

And then lastly and and the worst uh thing that we’ve seen, the patients report that Burzynski himself told Chase uh Sammut
——————————————————————
0:58:00
——————————————————————
The exact same thing

Um, and that was a

Have you read Chase’s story
——————————————————————
I don’t remember specifically

Possibly not
——————————————————————
It would stick with you, because that case is grotesque

The parents, uh, there was even a uh, uh, a fight over whether or not the parents should be allowed to continue treating this kid

He was basically lying, uh, in a uh uh brain dead uh for all intents and purposes, uh, in a in a coma uh without possibility of reversal, in his parents living room for months

Um, eh, all the while, he’s still on the, uh, we’ll I don’t actually, I can’t say that, I don’t exactly know if he was on the treatment the whole time

Um, but, we do have this pattern, that is there, of people believing, that this particular pattern is, uh, progress, a a is not progression of disease but is is inducement to to stay on, um, eh, and this has been going on for decades

Eh, eh just based on what we’ve been able to find that patients have been reporting this for decades
——————————————————————
0:59:20
——————————————————————
At some point, you would think that a doctor would realize that perhaps what these patients are walking away with is inaccurate

Why hasn’t that changed ?
——————————————————————
Well he’s using the same 1st generation drug
——————————————————————
E wel that that that that’s not it

This is this is like the 2nd day of oncology class, that that’s what the tumor looks like

People are reporting that the tumor is no longer growing, um, or that the growing has slowed after they’ve started

Well, okay

There, there is an explanation for that, and why you can’t take that as necessarily being evidence of efficacy
——————————————————————
1:00:00
——————————————————————
Ah, the tumor grows exponentially while the resources are available to it, but then it reaches a point where it’s a self-limited growth, so it, the time between uh doublings in size decreases logarithmically

Um, so this is, this is like basic tumor physiology that we’re talking about, and his patients don’t leave his office, knowing these facts, for decades

This doesn’t have anything to do with the, do with the drug

This this
——————————————————————
Well I’m sure a lot of people leave the doctors office not knowing things (laugh), for decades
——————————————————————
But, but when it’s, this treatment is working or this is not evidence that the treatment is working

That’s pretty basic

I mean we’re not, we’re not talking about deacetylase inhibitors or anything like that were you’d really need to know something about

This is, whether or not, you’re getting the outcome that you want
——————————————————————
1:01:00
——————————————————————
This is the whole reason for going

And it has nothing to do with the with the with the drugs
——————————————————————
Well we know the contin, the tumors can uh continue to grow for awhile, at least, and certain effects that they probably would
——————————————————————
Which is, which is like which we just pointed out was a was an invisible dragon
——————————————————————
Well I’m sure, I mean, it’s going to continue to grow, in any other clinical trial too, for a certain awhile

I mean like
——————————————————————
you’re you’re you’re assuming

You’re you’re you’re assuming that

You’re assuming that

Um, I’m not assuming that
——————————————————————
Well we know that all these other kids died in these science-based medicine trials, and, you know, we can assume that that was the case there too [25]
——————————————————————
1:02:00
——————————————————————
Ultimately it would, but whether or not it it it had a genuine therapeutic effect is a different matter all together

Um, this, what would, what would convince you that you’re wrong
——————————————————————
The FDA not giving him phase 3 approval [12], the FDA not giving him ODD designation [10]
——————————————————————
So you’re saying because the Orphan Drug Designation and the face that there’s a phase 3, therefor it works ?
——————————————————————
And showing that, and showing the FDA that there’s evidence of effectiveness [11]
——————————————————————
So what you’re saying is there’s nothing that would convince you now, that it doesn’t work
——————————————————————
Not until the FDA says it doesn’t work
——————————————————————
O-kay

Um, it’s it’s it’s not the FDA’s, but you understand it’s not the FDA’s job to tell someone that their drug doesn’t work
——————————————————————
Well they seem to be doing a good job of it
——————————————————————
1:03:00
——————————————————————
it’s it’s it’s up to Burzynski

It’s up to Burzynski to show that his drug does work

And it’s always been his burden of proof

He’s the one that’s been claiming this miracle cancer cure, forever
——————————————————————
Well I’m sure, I’m sure they wouldn’t have done things if they didn’t see some evidence that it was working
——————————————————————
Um, I don’t know if you’ve read Jaffe’s book
——————————————————————
No I haven’t read it [44]
——————————————————————
There seems to have been a lot going on there you really should look at it because it’s it’s it’s kind of revealing

Um, that that that it seems that there was a lot of political pressure applied to the FDA which may have been, uh, uh, have influenced the way in which these these trials were approved

I I would say that it is a genuine con uh uh bit of confusion on the parts of Skeptics

We don’t know why the phase 3 trial was approved

I don’t know that we’ve seen even the phase 1 trials, we don’t know why he’s getting a phase 3

And there’s a real story in that, we think
——————————————————————
1:04:02
——————————————————————
Um, that we’d love to see, however we can’t see, however we can’t see it because of proti protri proprietary uh protections that the FDA is giving to Burzynski, right ?

They’re not sharing his trial designs because they are his trial designs, right?

That the makeup of his drug that he’s distributing are his, uh design, and his intellectual property

So the FDA is protecting him, uh from outside scrutiny

While you may imagine that that, that that the FDA is is somehow antagonistic toward him

They’ve given him every opportunity, over 60 opportunities to prove himself worth uh their confidence and hasn’t

Um, but I definitely recommend that you look at Jaffe’s book and you will see, I think, um that um it’s called um, uh Galileo’s
——————————————————————
1:05:00
——————————————————————
I know what it’s called [44]
——————————————————————
You know what it’s called, okay, yeah

Um, definitely look at that

Um, you, you will see, the ways in which, the way that we got to this point, isn’t necessarily having anything to do with the efficacy of the drug

That comes across very clearly

Um, you, you mentioned it yourself, he he’s done well to listen to Jaffe’s advice, right ?
——————————————————————
Right
——————————————————————
So, there there’s a lot to that

Um, uh, but yeah, let me go back to the Twitter feed

Um
——————————————————————
Well I’m just gonna say, you know, the F, the FDA doing what they’ve done, since they approved those 72 initial trials, pretty much speaks for itself [45]

I mean they’ve had every opportunity to shut this down, since then
——————————————————————
Well it sounds to me like they’re they’re not um, the the the you know, they’ve put the clinical hold on now because they now have evidence that somebody may have died because of the treatment
——————————————————————
1:06:06
——————————————————————
Um, I don’t know what the state of that is right now

Um, uh, oh my gosh, um, let me see

Someone has just sent me a, a ah a link to, are you following the Hashtag, as this is going on
——————————————————————
No, I’m just concentrating on what we’re doing
——————————————————————
Okay

I’m doing, I’m doing the 2 things at once and it’s um, ok ok well it’s well ok I can’t I can’t go in and read that right now

Um, I would, ok let me tell you exactly what it will take, for me to come around and promote Burzynski

Um, for me, he needs to get a publication in a uh, yeah, uh uh uh publication in a peer-reviewed journal, a respected peer-reviewed journal, not like the the Journal of Medical Hypothesis or things we just made up
——————————————————————
1:07:16
——————————————————————
Um, something, you know, a a good, respectable journal that oncologists would read, that research oncologists would read

I would need an completely independent group to replicate his findings, and then I’d be all for it

I would say that right now, the business model that the Burzynski Clinic seems to depend on, as best as I can tell from an outsider, that, um, uh, that it depends on people paying money up front

It doesn’t depend on him developing and taking away a viable drug, that he can market to the entire world

His business model as best I can tell, is to keep it in house
——————————————————————
1:08:03
——————————————————————
That seems, if it works, if his drug genuinely works, and he hasn’t sent it along to mass approval, where he gets, for a couple of years at least, you know, exclusive rights to produce and sell this stuff, for one of the most intractable diseases, uh that man eh can can can, you know, can get, um, that suggests to me that there’s something else going on here

Now, someone has just sent a a note, uh that he has failed 3 different Institutional Review Board audits; this is Guy Chapman (@SceptiGuy), uh no other institution has a 3 for 3 fail, according to to Guy iye he knows no other one

Um, that 45% of phase 3 clinical trials fail due to deficient phase 2 design

Um, he has an approved phase 3, but phase 2 was deficient so phase 3 fails
——————————————————————
1:09:07
——————————————————————
Do you think that that could possibly have anything to do with why we’re not seeing the phase 3 advance
——————————————————————
Well #1 I don’t think the one with brainstem glioma where they wanted to use radiation with ANP was really the right way to go, I mean he’s already proven that uh he seems to have better results without [12]
——————————————————————
He’s claimed
——————————————————————
first starting radiation [20]
——————————————————————
He’s claimed

That’s a different thing altogether

And in fact
——————————————————————
Yeah but the thing is radi, I, the FDA was not saying, ok, one study, one side of the study we’re only going to use ANP, in the other side of the study we’re going to use radiation and and ANP like like they would normally do

No, they wanted to make him use radiation in both sides of the study [20]
——————————————————————
Well, you understand why they do that, because in order to, it’s
——————————————————————
They don’t do that with other drugs [13]
——————————————————————
No, they do do this with other drugs, well, it depends on the type
——————————————————————
1:10:01
——————————————————————
Some drugs it’s ethical to give something completely questionable, what they want to make sure that they at least get the standard care, you know which includes radiation

Um, and radiation does seem to extend life, reduce the size of some tumors some times

Um, do you concede, that in order to have a phase 3, you do not need to have a successful phase 2 ?

When 45% of phase 3 fail because they have a deficient phase 2 design, do you concede that ?
——————————————————————
Well I don’t buy anything Guy Chapman sells, considering his past record [46]
——————————————————————
Well, ok

It doesn’t matter where
——————————————————————
(laughing)
——————————————————————
It doesn’t matter where it comes from uh, um
——————————————————————
Well his theories are suspect, anything he hands out, let me tell ya [47]
——————————————————————
So-kay, um that would be shooting the messenger as opposed to dealing with the question, but
——————————————————————
But the question may be bogus, because of where the messenger has been bogus a lot of times before (laugh) [48]
——————————————————————
1:11:04
——————————————————————
the idea, the best, well, the best, well in that case the best response is “I don’t know”
——————————————————————
Well I’m just gonna say what I think about Chapman because he’s proven himself, many times to be questionable

I don’t see him on my blog responding to my criticism [7]
——————————————————————
There’s something that that we don’t know, you’re coming, honestly we didn’t know what to expect when we talked to you

We, were looking at the design, of your web-site and wondering whether or not we would be able to get a a coherent sentence out of you, because the web-site is disorganized, uh

Um, at at at at least it’s the organization is not apparent to the readers

Um, and um according to
——————————————————————
That’s like, that’s like saying that Gorski’s web-site is disorganized, his blog is like anti vaccine one day, Burzynski the next, blah blah blah
——————————————————————
No, that is tied together
——————————————————————
1:12:00
——————————————————————
(laughing)
——————————————————————
But let me, we know that that the the, the central concern is Burzynski

Ah, the source of this ah of of those #’s that I just gave you, Chapman has just updated me and he says um that it is, and I’ll go back to the, the ADR research . com issues in clinical research, so it’s the question, Bay Clinical uh Research and Clinical Development,a white paper called “Why do so many phase 3 clinical trials fail ?”

Uh, it’s prepared by Anistazios Retzios, Ph.D

Is Anistazios Retzios reliable ?

There is a correct here
——————————————————————
Well how would I know ?

I don’t have
——————————————————————
Exactly

That’s the right answer

You don’t know

You don’t know

You need to look into it

Alright ?

Before you dismiss it you have to look into it
——————————————————————
1:13:00
——————————————————————
Everytime somebody throws uh uh something to me, I have to look into it

That’s just, it’s my responsibility as a reader

Um
——————————————————————
Well you didn’t when I tried to get you to do stuff the 1st time, did ya ? [2]
——————————————————————
What, what stuff would you like
——————————————————————
(laughing)
——————————————————————
What stuff would you like me to do ?

I generally, I don’t read your blog
——————————————————————
Well I, the most, the mostly, excuse me, the most recent article I posted on there is the one about this particular conversation, where I went through all your comments that you had posted, and my response to them

And so I tried to consolidate everything into one, particular article
——————————————————————
Uh um, alright
——————————————————————
And that’s the newest article [2]
——————————————————————
Okay, I’ll look at that, and I will respond to it once I’ve taken a look at that, okay ?

Um, and I’ll respond on your web-site

Um, seems only fair

Um, one question I’d wondered, what is the Didymus Judas Thomas reference to
——————————————————————
1:14:00
——————————————————————
Well I thought that was pretty funny because doing biblical research, you come upon, Didymus Judas Thomas, or he’s all, also known by other names

He’s basically The Skeptic

And so, like I said, I consider myself to be Skeptic of The Skeptics
——————————————————————
Oh, so this is the Doubting Thomas
——————————————————————
I thought it was apropos

Of course
——————————————————————
This is the Doubting Thomas
——————————————————————
I’m doubting The Skeptics

Exactly
——————————————————————
Okay, so this is the one, you show me the, you put your your, the, your hand inside the wound

You know, Jesus says, basically, ok, bring it on, check me out, right ?
——————————————————————
Exactly
——————————————————————
Okay

Alright

That that, I didn’t, I didn’t realize that he was also, that that was the same guy

So, it’s it’s the Doubting Thomas

Um, what we would say, um, is that if Burzynski is the savior that he claims to be, that he should, open up his trials, he should open up his uh research uh protocols um and just say, “Look, bring it on”
——————————————————————
1:15:08
——————————————————————
Check out these wounds

But he’s never done that

Instead he he he wants us to just take the words of of of of his apostles

I don’t necessarily trust his apostles

I don’t think that they’re unbiased

(laughing)

I wanna see the data

I wanna see the the wounds in his hands and the the mark on his side
——————————————————————
Well I like how The Skeptics say, you know, all of Burzynski’s successes over the years are anecdotal and uh I consider on the same way that everything negative about Burzynski is anecdotal
——————————————————————
Oh, hey when when we talk about The Other Burzynski Patient Group, I don’t make any pretensions to make that my site proves anything

I I I really don’t

It’s not my job to prove anything

It’s Burzynski’s job

It is a researchers job to prove these things
——————————————————————
1:16:00
——————————————————————
Well my point is he’s proven them to the FDA because they’re the ones
——————————————————————
But we just pointed out, we just pointed out, that the FDA, often approves, phase 3 trials, based on flawed phase 2 clinical trials

That is therefor a real possibility in this case
——————————————————————
Could be, but I would have to read, read the
——————————————————————
Yes you would

T t and what I would honestly expect and hope, is that you would be honest about this, to yourself, and and and that’s the thing we don’t, we often don’t realize that we’re not being honest with ourself

I try to fight against it, constantly

But, um, uh but the way that you’d earlier phrased your uh your response to “could you possibly be proved wrong ?”, . . really did exclude other possibilities of of of of yourself being wrong

So if the FDA
——————————————————————
Well when it comes to Guy Chapman, yeah
——————————————————————
Well I’m not talking about the Guy Chapman

What you off, when I asked you, yourself, you know, what would prove you wrong, you said that the FDA hasn’t approved a phase 3
——————————————————————
1:17:03
——————————————————————
Well, ok

Let’s let’s back, let’s back up

What would the FDA, what happens if the FDA occasionally op op opposes, approves uh phase 3 trials, based on bad phase 2 trials

Would that be, would that cause any doubt in your mind ?

About the efficacy of ANP
——————————————————————
You still there ?
——————————————————————
Yeah, hello, yeah, you’re back
——————————————————————
Yeah, something cut off there for awhile
——————————————————————
Yeah Google+ is a little wonky sometimes

But, would, does, if you were to learn, that sometimes phase 3 trials, uh, are approved, and failed, based on flawed phase 2, would, would that make you reconsider your position of the phase 3 being evidence that it works
——————————————————————
1:18:00
——————————————————————
Well I would certainly look at that, but then again I would also look at the FDA granting him Orphan Drug Designation [10]
——————————————————————
Uh um could you send me that link, the, the, um . me see

I’m just looking at other things that are coming in on the Hashtag right now

Um, so the ANP is Orphan Drug status but is it Orphan Drug for glioma ?
——————————————————————
Orphan Drug for brainstem glioma and all gliomas [10]
——————————————————————
Is it sodium phenylbutyrate or is it the the versions of the drug, the AS10 stuff or A1 or whatever it’s called ?
——————————————————————
Right, it’s both AS10 AS2-1 and AS
——————————————————————
Clarification: A10 and AS2-1
——————————————————————
Okay, that’s what has Orphan Drug status

Alright, I’ll look into that

I hope somebody is writing all this down out there, so that we can go back and look at these claims later, right ?
——————————————————————
1:19:00
——————————————————————
So, oh, um

Do you have any questions for me ?

I’ve spent a lot of times asking questions of you
——————————————————————
Well not really, since you mentioned that you’d go in and look at my most recent article, anything you show in there or any reply you give is going to cover, what we’ve gone over

And so we can re debate it there
——————————————————————
Mhmm

Guy Chapman, throws up the the, the comment, permission to investigate is not evidence of anything other than evidence of a valid protocol, not a uh, evidence of efficacy, in and of itself

That’s another comment

Um, alright then, this is your chance t, there are lots of people have lots of questions about me out there

Uh, about what my motivations are and such

I might as well put that out on the table just so it’s on the record, is that I am taking exactly no money from anyone for this, and have gotten nothin’ but grief from a lot of people, even people who (laugh), even people who support me have given me grief for this

Um, just so that you know, um, there have been, some of the things that have happened, oh, this is an important point too

Um, that when we have criticized this, uh, a # of us, especially Gorski, uh myself, uh Rhys Morgan, uh, um, and and uh Popehat, the the lawyer, blog, uh, um, who else was on there, um, oh, the Merritts, uh, t, uh Wayne Merritt, and his family, people have been critical of of of Burzynski have faced retaliation for opposing him ah and intimidation, and including, um, I had my uh a couple weeks before Christmas my, my, the Chancellor of my University was contacted via e-mail, and uh Eric Merola said that I had been um, uh, been spreading mis truths about Burzynski, that I had been a be, on my my show um had said things that were demonstratively untrue, and he also said that the drug was FDA approved, which it, you know, that’s not right

But um, he said that he was gonna do, talk about me in his new movie, in, uh, relat, in millions of homes, um, and he wanted to get a statement from the University
——————————————————————
1:22:02
——————————————————————
The University of course ignored him, and immediately let me know that I was going to get smeared

Um, I consulted my lawyer and uh uh, you know, the best course of action was figured out, and um uh a Gorski has had his accreditation board contacted, he’s had his bosses contacted, Rhys Morgan received threats of liable suits from somebody who had been hired, by the clinic, to clean up his on-line reputation if he didn’t take down his on-line review of Burzynski, uh, had his a picture of his house sent to him, clearly the message being, “We know where you live kid,” uh, Wayne Merritt; a pancreatic cancer patient, this is something that, that people generally, do not recover from, like generally, die from, received phone calls at home, from, this individual, threatening him with lawsuits; he doesn’t have a law degree so he’s misrepresenting himself
——————————————————————
1:23:15
——————————————————————
Um, but all of this, was done, to critics

Do you think that is deserved ?

Do you think that that is right ?
——————————————————————
Well I’ve specifically stated on my blog that Marc Stephens uh obviously didn’t know what he was doing and went about it the wrong way

My position was he should of bou, got around it, gone about it the way I did, which is, I blog, and show where Rhys is wrong [49], I blog and show where Gorski is wrong [40], I blog and show where you are wrong [2], or Josephine Jones [50], or Guy Chapman [7], etcetera

And, eh, y’all have every opportunity to come on my blog, and I’ve had very few takers, uh, one claiming to be from Wikipedia, who I shot down [51]
——————————————————————
1:24:04
——————————————————————
And hasn’t come back

So, you know, I am welcome to anybody trying to come on my blog, and prove what I posted is wrong, and debate anything

Unlike some of The Skeptics I don’t block people on my blog
——————————————————————
Mhmm
——————————————————————
I don’t give lame reasons for blocking people on my blog because I’m an American and I actually believe in “Free Speech”
——————————————————————
Well to be fair

It it it doesn’t strike me as necessarily a “Free Speech” issue, you know
——————————————————————
Well to me it is when Forbes removes all my comments, in response to Skeptics some, and I showed this from screen-shots

You know, stuff like that [52]
——————————————————————
Was it down-voted ?
——————————————————————
Oh no
——————————————————————
No
——————————————————————
It wasn’t down-voted
——————————————————————
Mhmm
——————————————————————
They, I mean I’ve got screen-shots of where my comments were there, between other people’s comments, and uh, and they just decided to remove all my comments, and I blogged specifically about, you know, what they did and, uh, Gorski’s good friend and pal who authored that particular article
——————————————————————
Mhmm
——————————————————————
So I, I like how The Skeptics run things, you know
——————————————————————
1:25:14
——————————————————————
Well we do have for for for for one thing, um, I guess to understand is that we are uh motivated by um uh a respect, this is the one thing that that all Skeptics I think um are uh respect critical thinking, um, and um respect scientific uh a we we’re mostly scientific enthusiasts, there’s some Skeptics who are not um, uh, you know oh u space nerds, or whatever who are um just sc scholars and the humanities but for the most part we all respect scientific consensus and we respect scientific method and have an enthusiasm for living in the real world, this is something that like all of us us are about
——————————————————————
1:26:00
——————————————————————
And to that end, sometimes that influence is how we run, is how we decide to run our personal web-sites

Um, uh, that whether or not we want our, to give a platform to people who disagree with us, um, you know, uh, when we do, uh . . it it is our sandbox, you know, right ?

This, this (laughter), we’re allowed to to let whoever we want into our sandbox if we, you know, uh if we want
——————————————————————
Well I think that people who really believe in “Free Speech,” and when it’s done rationally, I mean, Gorski would never, really respond to any of my questions, so I [53]
——————————————————————
Did he, did he leave them up ?

Did he leave them up ?
——————————————————————
Well I know that he specifically removed a review I did uh of his review of Burzynski I on his web, on his blog

But he’s pretty much left a lot of my comments up that I’ve seen

Uh, but he never really responded to my questions about, what he based his beliefs upon
——————————————————————
1:27:00
——————————————————————
Right, um, do you think that he is required to answer you
——————————————————————
Well I would think, if you’re going to base your position on a certain thing, and then you can’t back it up with scientific literature, uh, you should answer, maybe not specifically to me, but answer the question

Answer to your readers
——————————————————————
Right
——————————————————————
You know, I can tell his readers come on my blog because it shows that they come on my blog
——————————————————————
Mhmm

Um so a a question uh why were why do you have so many Twitter and Wikipedia sock-puppets
——————————————————————
Well the reason I have so many Twitter things is because, obviously, some of The Skeptics will be on there lying about some tweet I sent, and so Wikipedia, excuse me Twitter will do a little ol’, do their little, hey we’re going to block your account while we do blah blah blah, and I’m not gonna waste my time, going through their little review process, I’ll just create another uh Twitter address because, like, you know, if you read the Twitter information you can have a ridiculous amount of uh Twitter I.D.’s, and I’ll just use another Twitter I.D. and continue on
——————————————————————
1:28:15
——————————————————————
And so Wikipedia can say what they want, because I’ve only ever used one I.P., I’ve only got on there during one time, and when they finally said hey, you know, we’re not gonna uh grant your appeal, I completely left their web-site alone, so all that stuff [54]
——————————————————————
Wikipedia

You left Wikipedia
——————————————————————
that they post [55]

Yep [56]

So all that garbage that they posted about me, about how I supposedly got on-line, on these other articles is just entirely B.S. [57]
——————————————————————
Mhmm

Um a
——————————————————————
And if they can prove otherwise, I’d sure like to see it [58]
——————————————————————
Uh We have uh a response from David James, everyone uh gave you a fair shout

You were a spammer plain and simple

You couldn’t, you couldn’t

work out your questions
——————————————————————
But that’s what y’all always say

That’s what y’all like to say, about everything
——————————————————————
Twitter does not

Twitter does not block people for for arguing

Only for spamming and policy violations
——————————————————————
1:29:05
——————————————————————
Yeah I’m sure that’s what they like to say

I mean, you can report an e-mail, or report a twit, and they’ll block it

But um they’ll never come back and say, and this is why we blocked you, for this particular twit, for this particular reason
——————————————————————
Mhmm

Okay

Um, let me see

Each new account was blocked for additional violations of policies

Um, this is a uh uh referring to the Wikipedia rules too

Um, so
——————————————————————
Wikipedia is a joke [59]
——————————————————————
Um, Wikipedia, do you know why um they’ve locked the Burzynski page ?
——————————————————————
Oh sure, I’m sure, that’s no problem [60]

I don’t have any problem with them locking that [61]

You know, I could tell when I was on there, and when Merola was on there, because he had a different I.P. address than me, I could tell they were his questions because of the way they were formed [62]
——————————————————————
1:30:04
——————————————————————
So I said, well they’re not answering his questions, I’ll just take on that role, and uh ask his questions and ask further questions, and they didn’t wanna deal with it, you know [63]
——————————————————————
Did you notice the part where he threatened, did you notice the part where he threatened to expose Wikipedia
——————————————————————
Expose them for what ?

For doing what they do, which is basically provide false information and one-sided information ? [64]
——————————————————————
We have to, well, they they uh are looking that it’s not one-sided information they want to show

Like they discuss, there is controversy about this guy
——————————————————————
Oh, please

They get on there and they say hey, Lola Quinlan filed a lawsuit, but they don’t tell you anything else

They don’t tell you, you know, Jaffe’s side of the story, and her lawyer’s side of the story
——————————————————————
Yeah, Jaffe’s on there
——————————————————————
(laughing)
——————————————————————
Jaffe’s on there
——————————————————————
Oh Jaffe’s on there but on that specific article about Lola, they didn’t say, here’s the article that was posted on uh Lola’s attorney’s web-site that, that mentions both his responses and Jaffe’s responses, to the uh lawsuit
——————————————————————
1:31:10
——————————————————————
uh well you could add that if you hadn’t gotten blocked
——————————————————————
Uh, trust me, I tried to add that and they wouldn’t add it
——————————————————————
1:32:20
Okay

Um, so, who are you
——————————————————————
(laughter)

You know, The Skeptics like to be nasty, and so, I’ve been like Josephine Jones (@_JosephineJones)

If she wants to play anonymous, I’ll play anonymous [65]
——————————————————————
She’s gotten threats
——————————————————————
Well, I don’t threaten people

I don’t threaten Gorski

I don’t send letters to people’s employers

I deal with them directly, and, you know, if if they won’t answer questions, then, you know, I’ll just post them on my blog for other people to see, and question uh themselves
——————————————————————
So we don’t know who you are
——————————————————————
1:33:01
——————————————————————
Like I said, I’m going to be like Josephine Jones [66]
——————————————————————
Like, she has suffered at the hands of some really mess, and she’s also, you have to realize she’s in the U.K, where libel laws are very lax at this point

That’s changing, ah, but uh, the the legitimate criticism, there is a big case last, me maybe 2 years ago of Simon Singh, talking about an alternative therapy, and, um, he was just saying that there’s no evidence for it but it’s promoted by um chiropractors, or something, or something like that

And he got slapped with a libel suit that cost him several years of his life and a lot of money

Um, so, there are several reasons why someone in the U.K. might uh be uh reticent to use their real name um, uh, and legitimate reasons

Um, in the U.S., I’m not sure that there is
——————————————————————
1:34:00
——————————————————————
I’ve been using my real name for a long time now

Um, you know, Gorski blogs under his real name, and is critical of uh, uh, also, let’s face it, everyone know, knows who “Orac” is

Um, how do we know that you don’t work for the clinic ?
——————————————————————
Because I’ve said so

I’m not even in Texas

I was born in Texas, but I don’t live in Texas

I don’t even, didn’t even, uh live in Houston
——————————————————————
Mhm
——————————————————————
Wasn’t even close to Houston
——————————————————————
Well see, one of the the problems is, Ju, I don’t know if you were around for the BurzynskiSaves thing

Did you ever see that account ?
——————————————————————
Oh, of course, I, I’ve seen a lot of stuff goes on Twitter [67]

I’ve see y’all saying “Oh, we’re “The Skeptics” and y’all know are names,” but, there’s a lot of Skeptics that post on there with pseudonyms, also [68]
——————————————————————
Mhmm

Right

Oh no, I mean you have a right to do that but but I I’ve found that posting under a pseudonym diminishes my credibility

Um, so, . . the quote was uh um, uh, “Happily promotes bogus therapies,” was Simon Singh’s quote that got him sued
——————————————————————
1:35:10
——————————————————————
Um, but Josephine Jones does it to, quote “protect her family”

Um

So there’s that

Um, are you afraid for you’re family ?
——————————————————————
Well, I’m just not sure how some of these uh Skeptics will react considering their past behavior [69]

I mean, when Skeptics refuse to, I mean they block you on your blogs [70]

They block your comments [71]

You know, they decide, “Well, I’m maybe going to accept one comment from you, but I won’t accept anymore [72]

You know, to me that’s just ridiculous [73]

Uh, the action on Forbes that happened, the action on The Guardian that happened, where, you know, you had someone on Gorski’s blog basically lie to the Gua, to The Guardian to get them to get them to uh block my comment [74]

So, you know, I’m Skeptical of The Skeptics and their uh and what they would do [75]
——————————————————————
1:36:01
——————————————————————
Um, you don’t see that there would be anything to gain from, from going on-record ?
——————————————————————
Not really [76]

I like my anonymity just like Josephine Jones likes hers [77]

I mean, I will read her stuff and reply to it and treat it seriously jus, just like any other blogger [78]
——————————————————————
Um I I haven’t, I’ve never, honestly, I’ve never seen a Skeptic actually go after a person individually

Um, you know, uh, you, unless they were doing colossal harm to people

Um, to to focus on an, uh, let’s say, call someone’s work for um, yeah

Cite one example, of a Skeptic making shit for a Burzynski shill or anyone else in real life

That’s a quote

That’s, that’s something coming in from, from Guy
——————————————————————
1:36:00
——————————————————————
Well the thing is, some of these Skeptics use names, and they’re not necessarily their real names

So, you know, I’ve seen
——————————————————————
Like had anyone ever contacted Sheila Herron, or has anyone to to um, go after her job, or go after um, you know, my brother has gotten stuff from people

He didn’t tell me because he didn’t want to upset me, but my brother gets things from Burzynski supporters that are violent and threatening

I get letters telling me that I suck cancer’s dick

Um, I I’ve all sorts of things um, and I just, I’ve never seen that, that intrusion into real life on the part of uh, um, uh, Skeptics

I’ve never seen them doing that type of of of stuff

I’ve never seen them threatening bogus lawsuits

Um, and I I I wonder there, if there is some sort of, what do you think accounts for that, that difference?
——————————————————————
Well I think that some people just have bad manners
——————————————————————
Mhmm
——————————————————————
I mean see, I’ve seen Skeptics on Twitter basically harass someone pro-Burzynski and keep sending them tweets, and that person specifically send them a tweet saying please keep, stop sending me tweets

You know, they didn’t go in and ask Twitter to block the, that particular person

That person just kept sending them tweets
——————————————————————
Mhmm
——————————————————————
So, you know, I’ve seen that stuff before
——————————————————————
I’ve I’ve I’ve shown up on, you know, as you, as you might, I imagine you moni, you monitor the Hashtag, right ?
——————————————————————
Yeah, I’ll look at it, and if you notice, I don’t uh, I usually don’t reply to Skeptics individually because I pretty much figure that y’all are gonna try and get my next account blocked whenever I do that kind of junk, so, well, you know, I just post what I want to post, under the Hashtag
——————————————————————
1:38:01
——————————————————————
Okay

Um, which is, which is your right

Um, uh, but every so often I jump in and say, you know, this movie has some flaws in it

You know, that’s something I say rather frequently

Um, and I invite people, if they’re interested, to take a look at a couple of links

I don’t, I, you’ll notice that I no longer force people to like, “Well how do you explain this ?,” because that doesn’t seem to be very persuasive, or work at all

Ah, only people who are open minded to having their mind changed, those are the only ones I want to talk to

So I give them a choice

Kind of like Morpheus in The Matrix really

Um, b, that was a joke for me

Um (laugh), um anyway

Um, but, it it I, honestly, I would encourage you to go on-record, um, but I have, less than nothing invested in that, so, um
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(Why would I want to reveal my identity, when David H. Gorski, M.D., Ph.D., FACS, a/k/a “Orac” claimed that he was pretty certain he knew who I was ?

Just Bring it, Gorski)

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1:39:00
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Uh, what’s next for you
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Well I’ll just keep reviewing the, any inaccurate statements I see posted

You know, it depends on if it’s Gorski, you know

Gorski’s gone on there and posted inaccurate stuff, and I call him out, you know he’s basically said on his blog, you know, if I do something inaccurate, you know, I’ll ‘fess up to it

Well, I’ve pointed out where he’s done that and said “Hey, you said you were gonna ‘fess up to it”

If I said on my blog that I was going to ‘fess up to doing something wrong, and you caught me, well, then I should, come out and say, “Okay, you got me”

But Gorski won’t even do that, you know, he just continues to go on down the road, as if
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Well what happens

Well what happens if he doesn’t understand what you’re saying ?
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(laughing)
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I mean one of the
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excuse
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I mean seriously

Well, one of the problems I think that a lot of Skeptics have had, in in back channel discussions about this is that we don’t understand exactly what you’re saying
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1:40:01
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We certainly don’t understand why you’re so attached to him if you’ve never had any uh, you know, close dealing with uh, uh, with Burzynski

We don’t really understand that
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I find, I find
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Actually, especially